Replies

So it appears that #2 is your answer: Independence.

Appearances are misleading.

Until it is built or returns as the City of Enoch, and the nations fear to come unto it, the answer will be it hasn’t happened yet that I’m aware of. We certainly have bigger fish to fry as your President leads his country over the cliff. A little touch of obvious humor.

I understand your confusion when you have the entire panoply of Mormon thought and a corresponding mountain of print from every anti-Mormon scribe from then to now. All virtually at your fingertips, but fail to see the forest for the trees. It isn’t Brigham’s or Joseph’s Church. Nor Mormon’s for that matter.

It is particularly important to recognize Joseph Smith for what you cannot see, which doesn’t change the facts or truth of the matter. The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS today is a legacy and proof of what he was privileged to restore to the earth. It will always be looked down upon by the Christian world.

There will always be voices of opposition attempting to woo parishioners to a different fold. We can only hope “we” have chosen wisely. I believe John Chapter 10 states there shall be one fold and one shepherd. That will be a great day, but until then we need to be looking and listening with broken hearts and contrite spirits to the voice of the good shepherd.

I understand your confusion when you have the entire panoply of Mormon thought and a corresponding mountain of print from every anti-Mormon scribe from then to now

I think that most of my 'stuff' comes from LDS sources.

Of course, there are a LOT of things that the top guys have access to that even the BIC folks have never even seen - merely have heard them whispered about.

There will always be voices of opposition attempting to woo parishioners to a different fold

Yeah.

My #79 and #81 tend to point that out quite well.

I understand your confusion when you have the entire panoply of Mormon thought and a corresponding mountain of print from every anti-Mormon scribe from then to now.

You know, NON-Mormon would be a bit more truthful here; but that would expose non-faith-building facts to a world that has been told - nay WARNED! - to avoid them..

The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS today is a legacy and proof of what he was privileged to restore to the earth.

Taking an older model car and pounding out the dents, sanding away the rust, repainting, and re-chroming the bumper is what is known as 'restoring' a car.

Chopping the top, beefing up the frame, dropping in a big block and narrowing the rear-end is known as 'customizing' a car.

Though they both have 4 wheels and an engine, they will NEVER be recognized as being from the same Manufacturer.

I believe John Chapter 10 states there shall be one fold and one shepherd. That will be a great day, but until then we need to be looking and listening with broken hearts and contrite spirits to the voice of the good shepherd.

Then LISTEN to HIM and not the siren call of others!

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

-- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

-- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

-- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

-- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

-- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion."

Brigham Young, October 9, 1859
Intelligence, Etc.
Remarks by President BRIGHAM YOUNG, delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 9, 1859.
Reported by G. D. Watt
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.282-91

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young, --JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8 p. 224

God is my “right hand man.”[8]

(Joseph Smith, in a letter to James Arlington Bennett on November 13, 1843, History of the Church, (Deseret Book, 1975), vol. 6, p. 78.)

"God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it."

Joseph Smith at the LDS Conference on April 8, 1844, History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 319-320.

"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil—all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter- day Saints never ran away from me yet."

Joseph Smith, Sunday, May 26, 1844 History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 408-9.

"We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.”

— Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.48

“As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.”

Lorenzo Snow, Mormon Prophet and president

"The day will come—and it is not far distant, either—when the name of the Prophet Joseph Smith will be coupled with the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Son of God, as his representative, as his agent whom he chose, ordained and set apart to lay anew the foundations of the Church of God in the world, which is indeed the Church of Jesus Christ, possessing all the powers of the gospel, all the rites and privileges, the authority of the Holy Priesthood, and every principle necessary to fit and qualify both the living and the dead to inherit eternal life, and to attain to exaltation in the kingdom of God."[5]

Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of the LDS Church, Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed. [1939], p. 134; as quoted in “Joseph Smith: Restorer of Truth,” Ensign, (Dec. 2003): p. 17.

“Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation. . . They are gods.”

(LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg. 237).

“We stand in reverence before him [Joseph Smith]. He is the great prophet of this dispensation. He stands at the head of this great and mighty work which is spreading across the earth. He is our prophet, our revelator, our seer, our friend. Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas. God be thanked for the Prophet Joseph”

(Gordon B. Hinckley, the fifteenth president of the LDS Church, Ensign article entitled “Joseph Smith: Restorer of Truth,” December 2003)

My brothers and sisters, in this bicentennial year of his birth, I should like to speak of our beloved Prophet Joseph Smith. . . . In the 135th section of the Doctrine and Covenants we read the words of John Taylor concerning the Prophet Joseph: “Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.” [D&C 135: 3]

(Thomas S. Monson, counselor to President Gordon B. Hinckley, the semi-annual LDS Conference in Salt Lake City, 2005)