Posted on 01/27/2023 8:20:27 PM PST by SeekAndFind
I believe that solar power is the future - though it’s LONG in the future. We have a lot of work to do on it; but our great-grandchildren may be very happy for it.
I work in the electrical utility industry, although its way up here in Alaska, I’d like to think I know a little bit about so-called renewables.
I have never spoke to a single person, even a few old-school curmudgeons, that are for “clean, renewable” energy. The problem is the cost and reliability. Green power is neither cheap, nor reliable at this time. It all requires the backup of coal and various forms of gas to back it up and smooth it out.
Some day we may be able to figure out a way to make green power cost effective and reliable. We are no where close to that point.
"solar facilities in Mississippi only generated about 22 percent of their potential output in 2021, which means utility companies would need to install 450 megawatts (MW) of solar to generate 100 MW of electricity, on average, over the course of a year, requiring a huge overbuild of capacity to get the same annual energy output."This is naive. You cannot just quadruple your solar plant size because you still generate ZERO power at night. You need either a 1) electricity storage system or 2) a backup fossil or nuclear plant the same size as your solar plant.
Either way, you have to buy TWO power plants whereas before you only had to purchase ONE power plant. So you have doubled your capital costs AND doubled your fixed maintenance cost (costs that you incur if you run the plan or not). Large-scale storage does not exist yet except as pumped hydro. Batteries will never be a storage system for solar plants because of their staggeringly high price.
So the situation is far worse than author Orr says.
The other fallacy in green energy is that end-of-life costs are conveniently ignored and not accounted for. The cost of demolishing a fossil-fuel fired power plant is low. The cost of demolishing a nuclear plant is high and spent-fuel storage is a difficult problem. But the green zealots just totally ignore the demolition costs of solar and wind plants.
The Pacific Northwest has the potential for massive hydro power projects which would provide gargantuan amounts of clean carbon-free energy. Such projects also provide water for cities and farms. But ya know … but … but … the widdle fishies 'n' stuff.
The main problem with solar seems to be storage/batteries.
And yes, we are nowhere close to that point.
That's ok, lot of people believe nonsensical things.
The Sun is the most powerful source of energy anywhere near Earth. You aren’t being imaginative enough.
It won’t be any time soon; but the Founding Fathers couldn’t have imagined a lot of things that we have today.
(They might understand them, if explained properly, though. I’ve often imagined what it would be like to tell Ben Franklin how a computer works...)
Just before sunset, shut off the power.
Turn it on after sunrise on sunny days.
Everybody does without electricity when it's night or cloudy. /S
And in our area...they’re killing off farmlands
In my energy law class, several students were doing research on various forms of clean energy and many of us were unable to find sources on the exact actual cost of solar and wind without subsidies. The closest I found was about $86 per MWH, much more expensive than other sources. I don’t this comparison really includes the extra taxes and environmental permits and other such costs that are tacked on to coal and natural gas.
By that metric so is fusion power.🤨
Who knows? A lot of people believe in the future of that, too.
As I wrote previously, I don’t think any of this is anywhere close in the future; and I don’t believe anyone should be forced into it, especially at current costs for the very undeveloped technologies. (I personally want nothing to do with current electric cars, or a solar-powered house.)
But I’m all for investigating and experimenting with things - that’s how science and technology have always progressed.
I don’t believe in rejecting an idea itself merely for temporal political reasons, or because of the political purposes for which some people may be currently using it.
Yes, and their efficiency isn’t all its cracked up to be either.
Georgiana...not just taxes and permits! If you want to open a new coal mine, you must purchase a reclamation bond in advance. That means that money has been paid up front to reclaim the land after mining operations are completed and the mine shuts down.
“Green” energy gets away without having to pay for any sort of reclamation or remediation bonds. What do you think will happen when millions of windmills and millions of square feet of solar cells reach the end of their economic lives in 15 to 25 years? The junk will just be abandoned there because the developers and owners have all gone bankrupt. We will need another SuperFund to clean up the vast messes left behind. Taxpayers will be on the hook for billions in clean up costs.
Every windmill has hundreds of tons of concrete underground to hold up the tower. That concrete will just sit there forever.
The costs of the loss of enormous amounts of valuable farmland are ignored, too. There are huge opportunity costs to taking that land out of production.
These are just a few examples of how costs are ignored to make “green” energy appear competitive with fossil and nuclear power. There is no way on God’s Green Earth that highly diffuse, low energy intensity solar and wind power can compete with concentrated energy in fossil and nuclear fuels.
What about solar panels on individual homes? Any better?
All true. Great article. We have huge coal reserves and should be burning it super cleanly to make electricity. We used to burn more but natural gas has been replacing it. We need natural gas to make fertilizers and for our chemicals industries.
Unfortunately the anti-CO2 cult has too much wacked out power.
While I tend to agree that solar has a future I don’t believe that it will ever be anything more than a niche energy source. Solar is great for powering road signs, heating water, etc. where the real power comes from a storage device (battery) that the solar panels can recharge when they are producing. Depending on solar to power a small city or any mission-critical endeavor is foolhardy and expensive. Expensive because it takes two power sources to make the power reliable - the solar farm and the backup power generation plant.
The inefficiency and cost effectiveness of solar was well discussed by previous posts. What I’d like to add is the average person of today, in particular the younger generations, have absolutely zero thinking ability. They do not know how to balance a checkbook or run a simple budget to keep from going into debt. They know nothing about how machinery or electricity actually works.
My point is they can be easily duped into thinking solar is free because the sun is free. And when this same bunch is scared to death that global warming will kill them, then to them it’s a no-brainer, that we must have more solar power and no other sources of electricity production.
What they do not realize is they are the ones with no brains.
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