Even Russian propagandists have to wonder, if everything is great, why are russian soldiers retreating?
Posted on 12/13/2022 6:36:33 AM PST by Cathi
Even Russian propagandists have to wonder, if everything is great, why are russian soldiers retreating?
Putin invaded Ukraine... But we didn’t do anything to prevent it, we just told Russia what we would do AFTER they invaded Ukraine. To Russia that seemed like a green light to invade. Biden needed a foreign policy issue so he would look tough after the Afghanistan bug-out. His poll numbers were falling. What’s a President to do? He didn’t want a war that involved US casualties, so he chose to bleed Ukraine. Washington loved it. Lots of arms sales, NATO has a new mission, and he got Bi-partisan agreement. Call me cynical, but I believe in the moral depravity of our current political leaders. Starting with Mitch McConnell,Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, and some other guy in the house. Biden is the teleprompter reader with the circus act for a cabinet. Wait, I should express my true feelings...
You mean, the troops spared to fight another day?
Russia has this barbaric military doctrine that land can be fought over and taken on another day, but troops dying in the wrong place at the wrong time…are not simply replaceable
Uke of course, has a different doctrine. About sacrificing troops and civilians for the slava Ukrani…glory of the land. Because there are a million more to send to die.
Except the millions of men dodging the war in 4- star hotels in Europe. Ironic given the number of Poles and other mercs dying for Ukraine while Uke men loiter in Poland
Uke= More like Japan in WW2
Actually, many Ukrainians returned from abroad to fight, while Russian men have fled in tremendous numbers trying to flee conscription.
Uke= More like Japan in WW2
That's maybe accurate about the Japanese ferociously defending their home islands. Ukrainians are also fighting to defend their families, homes and towns.
Again, you keep ignoring the rest of my post #29. That’s telling.
Russia has respected the 1994 Budapest Agreement for nearly three decades. As demonstrated in my previous post, we have sabotaged and played trickster with peace agreements for the past three decades.
We instigated a violent putsch against the democratically-elected government in Ukraine in 2014 and installed Nuland’s little pet Yatsenyuk (whose party had dodgy neo-Nazi elements*) in power, which predictably sparked violence against a minority population. We ignored Minsk and encouraged the Ukrainians not to implement it while pouring billions into Ukraine’s military. We ignored Putin’s repeated warnings that Ukrainian involvement in NATO was a red line.
How would we react if we were ringed by countries in a military alliance with a Russia that made it clear it considered us an enemy to be crushed? How would we react if we granted Virginia or Maryland independence, only to be later threatened with Russian missiles stationed a few miles from Washington?
Would we still honor an old agreement that we would not attack that state in exchange for it giving up the nukes we had stationed there? Especially if Russia had repeatedly broken or ignored previous agreements? Do you not think we might finally invade an independent Virginia or Maryland which refused to disavow joining the Russian alliance in such a case? After Russia had spent billions over the past few years arming and training their military?
I think both Russia and the US have been foolish in this war. No matter who “wins”, the real winner will be China. China will be in a stronger position vis-à-vis Russia — and the US — by the time this is over. It already is, actually.
Yes, Ukraine has been foolish, too. When elephants fight, the grass suffers. Ukraine is the suffering grass once again. Only this time they consented to it, even invited it. Had they maintained neutrality, they could have prospered as a bridge between East and West. Too bad for the suffering Ukrainians their leaders sold them out. It’s doubly sad when you consider Zelensky ran on a peace ticket promising to implement Minsk and won over 70% of the vote. Then he reneged and his popularity fell down into the lower 20th percentile. The people spoke, Zelensky sold out.
Now, back to the majority of my post #29, which you keep ignoring. Can you not see that our government when led by Democrats and/or neocons (they tend to form unholy alliances) has no compunction about causing bloodshed, destruction and misery in Other People’s Countries if it suits their aims? Since 1990, one of their aims has been to keep NATO in business (we consider it one of our most important levers of power). They have no qualms about destroying other countries, ginning up civil wars, sabotaging peace agreements if it suits their agenda.
BTW, I didn’t mention Libya before, but we became the air force of terrorist barbarians and turned Libya into a failed state sprouting slave markets and launching migrant boats toward Europe. Didn’t that little war turn out nicely?
We say we are enforcing a rules-based New World Order, yet ignore those rules ourselves. “Rules for thee but not for me.” We should not be surprised when sooner or later, those on the receiving end start ignoring those rules and agreements.
*Which naturally horrified Germany at the time and which urged a other choice, but Nuland’s response was her infamous “[redacted] the EU!”
Who would stop them? We would, for starters. For the same reason we were so keen to get those nukes out of Ukraine in the first place: (1) we didn’t want them in the hands of a rogue nation or terrorist organization and we knew all too well how corrupt Ukraine was and is and (2) Ukraine had no experience in self rule and had never been its very own country before — given its corruption, its inexperience and unpredictability, we did not, and still do not, trust them not to use any nukes in their possession.
The Ukrainians couldn’t use the missiles based on their soil for defense anyway, as they did not have the launch codes.
For more, see: https://www.icanw.org/did_ukraine_give_up_nuclear_weapons?locale=en
And where do you think they would get the money for their nuclear program, anyway? We’re certainly not going to fund it. Nor will the Europeans or anyone else. Ukraine is broke and reduced to beggar nation status.
Hooray, Russia respected the treaty before they broke it.
We instigated a violent putsch against the democratically-elected government in Ukraine in 2014
LOL right, so Putin is bringing back democracy to Ukraine?
How would we react if we were ringed by countries in a military alliance with a Russia that made it clear it considered us an enemy to be crushed?
So you're bizarrely arguing Russia is correct to invade surrounding independent countries in order to protect itself? Maybe if Russia stayed within its border, and didn't have a recent history of enslaving its neighbors, it wouldn't be 'ringed' by hostile countries
Would we still honor an old agreement that we would not attack that state
You're completely crazy justifying invasions of independent sovereign countries for territorial gain with the justification its an 'old agreement(1994).
Ukraine is an independent soverign nation with the right to choose its own economic agreements and military alliances.
Stop justifying Putin's invasion for territorial gain, its repulsive.
Yes, fighting for their homes and families…on both sides
Why some Ukrainians say aloud the only way to “ liberate” the Donbass is to remove millions of the population
Russian soldiers from Russia are fighting for their homes and families in Ukraine?
The tens of thousands of men in the DPR and LPR militia ( now integrated into a pretty effective military) started as villagers, miners, farmers, started fighting for their homes and families in 2014 after feeling shafted by the Maidan coup, the first act of the new installed govt being to ban Russian language and “ pro Russian” political reps and parties…lassuming you have really studied modern history
Donetsk has been and is suffering one of the greatest war crimes in Europe with indiscriminate ( and targeted) shelling of civilians. all as Europe turns a blind eye, because they speak Russian and refuse to bury their heritage under threats of the neo-nationalist thugs in the military AND the govt
The Donbass were willing to live under Ukraine with some autonomy on local matters, and political representation, as laid out in Minsk Accord. Even as the shelling of civilian settlements claimed over 10,000 lives. Kinda like we been supporting for the Kurds, for decades and NATO even carved out a separate state for Kosovo. But hey, that was us. Russia cant do us.
The Donbass are “ separatists”, the Kurds and Kosovars are freedom fighters.
However, the world now knows Minsk for 7 years was merely a deception op by Kiev London and the US to buy time to militarize Ukraine for war vs the Eastern oblasts and Crimea.
Kinda poisons the well of trust in negotiations
Why nobody in current govt attended Gorbachev’s funeral.
See him as a dupe and failure that led to what is happening now in Kiev
Meanwhile in Russia: the host and his guest concur that Ukraine should be erased off the map and even the memory that it existed should be destroyed. The host says that Russia will always be an empire and being in a state of war is only natural for any empire of Russia's size.
The electrical grid in Ukraine is in tatters, people are without heat, and 23 degrees tonight in Kiev, will be in the teens over the weekend.
And it’s not even winter yet.
The Russians don’t have to defeat Zelensky in the field, they can sit back and let the winter do that for them. Eventually the Ukrainians who are left will get tired of freezing to death, and there will be a negotiated settlement, on the Russian’s terms.
Or, Biden and his buddies in on the grift can start WWIII. Which will warm things up, but only for a very short period of time.
The Ukrainians can also assemble a set of US allies to work with them. Poland first off, South Korea second, possibly even Japan or Germany. All these countries know any US security guarantees come with an expiration date. By choice, we are a declining world power.
Last but not least, permission can be purchased: we already had a Vice President on the Ukrainian payroll-- all they have to do is find the right palms to grease.
The last thing they'll do is kiss Russian butt, no matter how cold it gets.
Russia can’t beat Ukraine’s army in the field so it bombs its women and children instead. You don’t seem to understand that Ukrainians would rather freeze than live or die in the filth and scum of the Russian World.
“Eventually the Ukrainians who are left will get tired of freezing to death, and there will be a negotiated settlement, on the Russian’s terms.”
Wishful thinking never won a war before, I don’t think it’s going to start now.
Ukraine is getting in the way of what WEF wants. Biden wants a new Iran deal and is partnering with Putin to get it. Germany wants cheap Russian gas to finance its kooky green policies. Dems and the EU want the Ukraine hot potato gone ASAP. So your premise is entirely wrong.
That’s absurd.
The Russians are not leaving, and eventually the Ukrainians will have to negotiate a settlement on Russian terms.
It’s only a question of how much suffering and death precedes that inevitability.
LOL. Pure comedy. You prattle on about Minsk while ignoring Putin is lying Bolshevik who has broken every agreement he ever made. He lied about every step of Russian involvement in Ukraine and you know it. You’re fine with that though. I guess you have to break a few eggs and murder a hundred thousand Ukrainians to make a Russian omelet.
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