Replies

Now, I will acknowledge that the latter data isn't peer reviewed, and the interwebz wasn't around for data collection prior to 1995. That can account for some of these differences.

Did you bother to take 5 minutes to look at your cites?

A study Sudden Deaths in Young Competitive Athletes-Analysis of 1866 Deaths in the United States, 1980–2006 shows an average of sixty-six (66) deaths per year.

This is limited to young American athletes participating in organized competitive sports who died suddenly. The time period studied was largely before the internet so finding the historical data was tricky, but it looks like an honest attempt at a limited sample.

A separate study, Sudden cardiac death in athletes: the Lausanne Recommendations lists 1101 (1966-2004) reported cases in athletes under 35 years, or an average of 29 per year.

The authors of this study explicitly say, in the paper, that they didn’t try to look at all sources for deaths, they were not trying to count the total number of deaths, and that the study shouldn’t be used for that purpose. Almost as if they anticipated anti-vaxer tactics.

This study has zero relevance to my request.

This data set of citizen reports shows 718 (and counting) of such deaths in 2022.

You say ‘such deaths’ but they’re anything but. It’s a compilation of random deaths from random causes from all over the world of people of almost any age, many who were not competitive athletes at the time of their death.

We have a 34 year old MMA fighter who died of liver cancer.

We have a 55 year old rugby commentator who probably hadn’t played a competitive sport in 20 years.

We have a 55 year old Spanish horse trainer.

What are we supposed to compare this dog’s breakfast of data to?

I repeat, I’ve not seen any evidence of increased deaths of athletes and your post wasn’t even a serious effort.

Let's go to the video tape.

FoF wrote Seems to becoming less rare.

semimojo responded Do you have any data indicating that?

Mr Busek replied Yeah, the number of news articles about children/youths dying of sudden cardiac arrythmia has definitely remained pretty steady over the past few years. NOTE: I am well aware of "Observational Bias," but the trend is clear. Regards,

semimojo replies News articles or news articles posted to FR?

Separately, semimojo wrote Funny that for months I’ve been asking if anyone has any evidence that any of these have increased. I’ve gotten none and I usually get a hand-waving response like yours.

Subsequent to the preceding post, links are provided to two proper journal articles, establishing data-driven baselines for comparison, with annual pre-covid annual averages of under 100 sudden deaths in young athletes. A comparative set of data is provided with about 700 deaths so far in 2022. A qualifying statement, acknowldong some pros and cons of the data and analysis, is presented.

What follows is absolutely delightful.

The first criticism self-indicts the poster that he/she/it didn't read the qualifier.

Then, the poster's analysis of the peer data hints that the averages may be downed-biased (I wasn't even going to go there, since this was a first-pass response to a post and not a dissertation defense). This kind of honesty is refreshing. Thank you.

This is followed by a real funny one, This study has zero relevance to my request.

We are greeted initially to a legitimate criticism of the citizen dataset, that it's not totally homogenous with that of the peer data. Like I said, fair enough. However, instead of stripping away the heterogeneous data (more on that later...and I wouldn't expect that to be done...the poster doesn't work for me) or something to advance this discussion, we get the domain of leftists...name-calling (not at me, but the data).

Let's take the citizen dataset, and focus on people 13-25 (the age range with the first study). In Through September 17, 2022, I count eight such deaths, Aug 2022-about 30, July 2022-15, June 2022-22, May 2022-19, April 2022-22, March 2022-44 (that was a tough month), February 2022-17, January 2022-31.

Grand total through Sept 17, 2022 is 208.

If I annualized these 208 deaths through 259 days, I'd get 293 deaths. That's waaaaaay more than the benchmarks. And worthy of a "hmmmmm...."

Now, let's be honest: these citizen datasets suffer from a lack of consistency in data capture, recording, and processing that the benchmark data possess (though they, as noted, the benchmarks likely suffer from a reporting limitation). It's the same reason why clinical trials are so important in assessing whether or not a shot should graduate to a vaccine. Thus, nobody should do a victory lap with 208 or 293. Indeed, we are taking about young people dying - nobody should be happy.

I am also not going to claim that all of this data are prima facie evidence that the shots are causing these sudden deaths. In fact, I am hoping that the claim that zillions of shot-recipients will be dead in five years turns out to be as wrong as it is sensational.

However, considering the virtual absence of legitimate data capture with consistent recording, data scrubbing, and verification, we drink the dirty water at the oasis in this desert. And that water isn't poisonous, and it allows us to advance.

For the record, I AM concerned about the unknowns, especially since these shots were granted EUA and weren't subject to proper clinical trials, to assess long-term risks. This is especially worrying because vaccines fail trials 59% of the time and take a median of 9 years.

I appreciate a quest for the truth. I appreciate assiduous inquiry. But, I consider it erroneous, inaccurate, dubious, and bordering on dishonest, to say this has zero relevance to the request. Thanks for listening.