Posted on 09/09/2022 5:59:45 AM PDT by God luvs America
(T)he first step in the revolution by the working class ist to raise the proletariat to th level of ruling class, to win the battle of democracy.And please do not twist the words of God. Our independence from Britain did not leave its monarch deposed. France murdered its monarch, and the resulting chaos left them to be ruled by subsequent tyrants, leading to communism itself by forming the pattern thereof.
— Communist Manifesto
What will be the course of this revolution? Above all, it will establish a democratic constitution, and through this the direct or indirect dominance of the proletariat.
— The Principles of Communism
I’m not twisting anything. It’s RIGHT THERE IN THE VERSE.
And He changes the times and the seasons;
He removes kings and raises up kings;
He gives wisdom to the wise
And knowledge to those who have understanding.
So if the people, with the wisdom granted to them by God, and the knowledge given to them by God, recognize that the times have changed and end the monarchy, that’s God acting. That’s what the verse says.
Yes France murdered their monarchs, and some really bad stuff happened after. But again ACCORDING TO THE VERSE, all God’ will. He removed the king. That’s what it says.
You still seem to have a blind spot with respect to the “setteth up kings” part.
The phrase “times have changed” is leftspeak.
Not at all. I’m pointing out that removeth comes first. And if one gets removed and another doesn’t get setup, God’s will.
Time’s have changed is REALITY speak. Times do change. Technology changes, society changes, concepts of governance change. Self governance wasn’t much of a thing 2100 years ago. Kings got deposed, lines got eliminated, to setup new kings. It would be quite a while before people got the idea (wisdom, from God) that you could depose a monarchy and replace it with something ELSE.
Keep in mind historian think the Book of Daniel was written during the Maccabean Revolt, when the Jews were fighting for independence FROM a king. According to YOU they shouldn’t have done that. They should have just sat back and waited for God to do something. Much more logical given the circumstance to see that what it’s saying is that if they succeed (which was still up in the air at the time) that would be the hand of God.
If the people of England finally get wise, realize that their monarchy costs them a lot of money and gives them nothing and choose to end it that’s God removing the king.
Proof by assertion.
And “setteth up kings” still comes after. Particularly poignant in Revelation 11:15.
Proof by reality. Given that at the time it was written they were trying to get rid of king the idea that the verse says “don’t get rid of a king” is laughable. It is saying that if they won that was God’s will, and if they replace him, also God’s will. And if they don’t ALSO God’s will.
Those are the facts. You are wrong. Your own carefully selected verse says we can get rid monarchs. Period. Bye
Repeat of proof by assertion. Something does not become a fact by your say-so; we aren’t in Airstrip One.
Absalom for a time won the crown of Israel by force, but it was not God’s will for him to be the king; same with Adonijah versus Solomon.
Your wish is my command. Here you go...
God save the queen
'Cause tourists are money
And our figurehead
Is not what she seems
Well I'll say one thing, those Sex Pistols were easier on the ears than that angry pigtailed "How Dare You" girl with the glowering eyes.
Oh good, another read-n-preach internet pastor - and another unfortunate consequence of Henry’s false religions.
Thanks but no.
discostu-
Olga-high has providence over the Word of God - to win arguments on FR. He read Daniel once.
So shush.
Red herring.
I hope you at least agree that the verse in question has but one meaning. And I’ve found it to be tge case that those who are in rebellion against God to get so stirred up by hearing His word in ant context, particularly when it conflicts with what their opinion may be.
It does have one meaning:
When a king goes down that’s God’s will
Any other interpretation is wrong. And I can tell you know it because you haven’t actually even TRIED to give another interpretation. You just keep saying I’m wrong. Give some REASON. How could it POSSIBLY mean England should continue to have powerless overpriced monarchs forever? Go ahead give the interpretation. Nut up or shut up.
OK, that’s funny. 😆
It was not God’s will that David “go down” in favor of Absalom. A lot of Israelites might have been okay with it though.
And you’re back to proof by repeated assertion. A logical fallacy is still a logical fallacy.
If they had succeeded it would have been God’s will. That’s WHAT THE VERSE SAYS.
You remind of that joke about the guy in the flood. He keeps declining rescue saying God will save him. He finally drowns and gets to the Gates and he’s confused, he doesn’t understand why God didn’t help him. God says “I sent 2 boats and a helicopter, what were you expecting?” The hand of God can take any form. That verse says that if a king is removed, whatever the mechanics of it were, that was God.
Success is not always an indcation of God’s will behind this or that great deed.
So with regard to 2020: is that God’s will or is retribution coming?
So you’re saying God didn’t want the French monarchy to fall? And yet you DEMAND I read Daniel 2:21 “He removes kings”. Sorry bub, you’re off in never never land. Either Daniel 2:21 is accurate, or it isn’t. If it is then success IS ALWAYS indication of God’s will (HE REMOVES KINGS). if it isn’t, well, your whole argument just went away.
As for 2020 God plays the long game. 2020 puts things in position for something else. Gotta breaks eggs to make cakes.
Red herring again. I am not denying any word of Daniel 2:21 whereas you are denying some words. Louis XVI was followed by Napoleon following the pseudo-republican interregnum, remember. In the same way, England’s Charles I was followed by Charles II after Oliver Cromwell’s death. And some kingdoms do not rise back up indeed, such as with Zedekiah after Nebuchadnezzar II conquered Judah. None of that means that somehow God intends humanity to abolish monarchies after several millennia of being ruled by them, which appears to me to be the assertion you are attempting to prove by several logical fallacies.
Not a red herring. An honest question. Which you refuse to answer. Like every other question.
Actually it does EXACTLY mean that. “He sets up kings”, if He doesn’t setup a new king that tells us He doesn’t want one.
I’m not saying what God wants, I leave that up to ego maniacs. I’m pointing out that according to the verse YOU demanded we focus on, if England ends their pointless, powerless, expensive monarchy, that would be God’s will. That’s what your verse says “He removes kings”. If the kings go away, that’s on Him, that’s His call.
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