Electric Planes Are Coming Sooner Than You Think

There is no way in hell that an electric-powered aircraft will ever carry paying passengers.

There are electric powered aircraft now, flying in the experimental category, but the experience of Starship tells us there will never be an electric passenger-carrying aircraft. The FAA won't allow it.

Starship started life as a great Burt Rutan idea, and the prototype showed great promise as a cheap, fast business jet alternative. Then the FAA got their hooks into it during the certification process.

The result was an overweight, unduly complex looser that was far more expensive and performed far worse than existing aircraft in that class, eg. Beech King Air.

In the electric plane situation, that same FAA will impose such a heavy structure that useful electric flight will not be possible.

.. landing weight same..

And with global warming the air density will be lower so no flying on hot days or to places at higher elevation. Maybe just fly at night? Definitely no IMC, anti ice is an energy hog.

That would be one heck of an extension cord.

In the electric plane situation, that same FAA will impose such a heavy structure that useful electric flight will not be possible.

I agree with you...there will never be an electric transport plane.

The weight of the structure is not the only issue. Full compliance with FAR Part 25 is required of all transport planes.

Below is a link to FAR Part 25:

AIRWORTHINESS STANDARDS: TRANSPORT CATEGORY AIRPLANES

For those not interested in the link, here's the paragraph titles. In the link above, each paragraph title is a link to the paragraph:

Note: Paragraph 25.867 Fire protection: other components

One can only imagine the fire protection required for a battery fire.

25.1 Applicability

25.2 Special retroactive requirements

25.3 Special provisions for ETOPS type design approvals

25.5 Incorporations by reference

25.21 Proof of compliance

25.23 Load distribution limits

25.25 Weight limits

25.27 Center of gravity limits

25.29 Empty weight and corresponding center of gravity

25.31 Removable ballast

25.33 Propeller speed and pitch limits

25.101 General

25.103 Stall speed

25.105 Takeoff

25.107 Takeoff speeds

25.109 Accelerate-stop distance

25.111 Takeoff path

25.113 Takeoff distance and takeoff run

25.115 Takeoff flight path

25.117 Climb: general

25.119 Landing climb: All-engines-operating

25.121 Climb: One-engine-inoperative

25.123 En route flight paths

25.125 Landing

25.143 General

25.145 Longitudinal control

25.147 Directional and lateral control

25.149 Minimum control speed

25.161 Trim

25.171 General

25.173 Static longitudinal stability

25.175 Demonstration of static longitudinal stability

25.177 Static lateral-directional stability

25.181 Dynamic stability

25.201 Stall demonstration

25.203 Stall characteristics

25.207 Stall warning

25.231 Longitudinal stability and control

25.233 Directional stability and control

25.235 Taxiing condition

25.237 Wind velocities

25.239 Spray characteristics, control, and stability on water

25.251 Vibration and buffeting

25.253 High-speed characteristics

25.255 Out-of-trim characteristics

25.301 Loads

25.303 Factor of safety

25.305 Strength and deformation

25.307 Proof of structure

25.321 General

25.331 Symmetric maneuvering conditions

25.333 Flight maneuvering envelope

25.335 Design airspeeds

25.337 Limit maneuvering load factors

25.341 Gust and turbulence loads

25.343 Design fuel and oil loads

25.345 High lift devices

25.349 Rolling conditions

25.351 Yaw maneuver conditions

25.361 Engine and auxiliary power unit torque

25.362 Engine failure loads

25.363 Side load on engine and auxiliary power unit mounts

25.365 Pressurized compartment loads

25.367 Unsymmetrical loads due to engine failure

25.371 Gyroscopic loads

25.373 Speed control devices

25.391 Control surface loads: General

25.393 Loads parallel to hinge line

25.395 Control system

25.397 Control system loads

25.399 Dual control system

25.405 Secondary control system

25.407 Trim tab effects

25.409 Tabs

25.415 Ground gust conditions

25.427 Unsymmetrical loads

25.445 Auxiliary aerodynamic surfaces

25.457 Wing flaps

25.459 Special devices

25.471 General

25.473 Landing load conditions and assumptions

25.477 Landing gear arrangement

25.479 Level landing conditions

25.481 Tail-down landing conditions

25.483 One-gear landing conditions

25.485 Side load conditions

25.487 Rebound landing condition

25.489 Ground handling conditions

25.491 Taxi, takeoff and landing roll

25.493 Braked roll conditions

25.495 Turning

25.497 Tail-wheel yawing

25.499 Nose-wheel yaw and steering

25.503 Pivoting

25.507 Reversed braking

25.509 Towing loads

25.511 Ground load: unsymmetrical loads on multiple-wheel units

25.519 Jacking and tie-down provisions

25.521 General

25.523 Design weights and center of gravity positions

25.525 Application of loads

25.527 Hull and main float load factors

25.529 Hull and main float landing conditions

25.531 Hull and main float takeoff condition

25.533 Hull and main float bottom pressures

25.535 Auxiliary float loads

25.537 Seawing loads

25.561 General

25.562 Emergency landing dynamic conditions

25.563 Structural ditching provisions

25.571 Damage—tolerance and fatigue evaluation of structure

25.581 Lightning protection

25.601 General

25.603 Materials

25.605 Fabrication methods

25.607 Fasteners

25.609 Protection of structure

25.611 Accessibility provisions

25.613 Material strength properties and material design values

25.619 Special factors

25.621 Casting factors

25.623 Bearing factors

25.625 Fitting factors

25.629 Aeroelastic stability requirements

25.631 Bird strike damage

25.651 Proof of strength

25.655 Installation

25.657 Hinges

25.671 General

25.672 Stability augmentation and automatic and power-operated systems

25.675 Stops

25.677 Trim systems

25.679 Control system gust locks

25.681 Limit load static tests

25.683 Operation tests

25.685 Control system details

25.689 Cable systems

25.693 Joints

25.697 Lift and drag devices, controls

25.699 Lift and drag device indicator

25.701 Flap and slat interconnection

25.703 Takeoff warning system

25.721 General

25.723 Shock absorption tests

25.729 Retracting mechanism

25.731 Wheels

25.733 Tires

25.735 Brakes and braking systems

25.737 Skis

25.751 Main float buoyancy

25.753 Main float design

25.755 Hulls

25.771 Pilot compartment

25.772 Pilot compartment doors

25.773 Pilot compartment view

25.775 Windshields and windows

25.777 Cockpit controls

25.779 Motion and effect of cockpit controls

25.781 Cockpit control knob shape

25.783 Fuselage doors

25.785 Seats, berths, safety belts, and harnesses

25.787 Stowage compartments

25.789 Retention of items of mass in passenger and crew compartments and galleys

25.791 Passenger information signs and placards

25.793 Floor surfaces

25.795 Security considerations

25.801 Ditching

25.803 Emergency evacuation

25.807 Emergency exits

25.809 Emergency exit arrangement

25.810 Emergency egress assist means and escape routes

25.811 Emergency exit marking

25.812 Emergency lighting

25.813 Emergency exit access

25.815 Width of aisle

25.817 Maximum number of seats abreast

25.819 Lower deck service compartments (including galleys)

25.820 Lavatory doors

25.831 Ventilation

25.832 Cabin ozone concentration

25.833 Combustion heating systems

25.841 Pressurized cabins

25.843 Tests for pressurized cabins

25.851 Fire extinguishers

25.853 Compartment interiors

25.854 Lavatory fire protection

25.855 Cargo or baggage compartments

25.856 Thermal/Acoustic insulation materials

25.857 Cargo compartment classification

25.858 Cargo or baggage compartment smoke or fire detection systems

25.859 Combustion heater fire protection

25.863 Flammable fluid fire protection

25.865 Fire protection of flight controls, engine mounts, and other flight structure

25.867 Fire protection: other components

25.869 Fire protection: systems

25.871 Leveling means

25.875 Reinforcement near propellers

25.899 Electrical bonding and protection against static electricity

25.901 Installation

25.903 Engines

25.904 Automatic takeoff thrust control system (ATTCS)

25.905 Propellers

25.907 Propeller vibration and fatigue

25.925 Propeller clearance

25.929 Propeller deicing

25.933 Reversing systems

25.934 Turbojet engine thrust reverser system tests

25.937 Turbopropeller-drag limiting systems

25.939 Turbine engine operating characteristics

25.941 Inlet, engine, and exhaust compatibility

25.943 Negative acceleration

25.945 Thrust or power augmentation system

25.951 General

25.952 Fuel system analysis and test

25.953 Fuel system independence

25.954 Fuel system lightning protection

25.955 Fuel flow

25.957 Flow between interconnected tanks

25.959 Unusable fuel supply

25.961 Fuel system hot weather operation

25.963 Fuel tanks: general

25.965 Fuel tank tests

25.967 Fuel tank installations

25.969 Fuel tank expansion space

25.971 Fuel tank sump

25.973 Fuel tank filler connection

25.975 Fuel tank vents and carburetor vapor vents

25.977 Fuel tank outlet

25.979 Pressure fueling system

25.981 Fuel tank ignition prevention

25.991 Fuel pumps

25.993 Fuel system lines and fittings

25.994 Fuel system components

25.995 Fuel valves

25.997 Fuel strainer or filter

25.999 Fuel system drains

25.1001 Fuel jettisoning system

25.1011 General

25.1013 Oil tanks

25.1015 Oil tank tests

25.1017 Oil lines and fittings

25.1019 Oil strainer or filter

25.1021 Oil system drains

25.1023 Oil radiators

25.1025 Oil valves

25.1027 Propeller feathering system

25.1041 General

25.1043 Cooling tests

25.1045 Cooling test procedures

25.1091 Air induction

25.1093 Induction system icing protection

25.1101 Carburetor air preheater design

25.1103 Induction system ducts and air duct systems

25.1105 Induction system screens

25.1107 Inter-coolers and after-coolers

25.1121 General

25.1123 Exhaust piping

25.1125 Exhaust heat exchangers

25.1127 Exhaust driven turbo-superchargers

25.1141 Powerplant controls: general

25.1142 Auxiliary power unit controls

25.1143 Engine controls

25.1145 Ignition switches

25.1147 Mixture controls

25.1149 Propeller speed and pitch controls

25.1153 Propeller feathering controls

25.1155 Reverse thrust and propeller pitch settings below the flight regime

25.1157 Carburetor air temperature controls

25.1159 Supercharger controls

25.1161 Fuel jettisoning system controls

25.1163 Powerplant accessories

25.1165 Engine ignition systems

25.1167 Accessory gearboxes

25.1181 Designated fire zones; regions included

25.1182 Nacelle areas behind firewalls, and engine pod attaching structures containing flammable fluid lines

25.1183 Flammable fluid-carrying components

25.1185 Flammable fluids

25.1187 Drainage and ventilation of fire zones

25.1189 Shutoff means

25.1191 Firewalls

25.1192 Engine accessory section diaphragm

25.1193 Cowling and nacelle skin

25.1195 Fire extinguishing systems

25.1197 Fire extinguishing agents

25.1199 Extinguishing agent containers

25.1201 Fire extinguishing system materials

25.1203 Fire detector system

25.1207 Compliance

25.1301 Function and installation

25.1302 Installed systems and equipment for use by the flightcrew

25.1303 Flight and navigation instruments

25.1305 Powerplant instruments

25.1307 Miscellaneous equipment

25.1309 Equipment, systems, and installations

25.1310 Power source capacity and distribution

25.1316 Electrical and electronic system lightning protection

25.1317 High-intensity Radiated Fields (HIRF) Protection

25.1321 Arrangement and visibility

25.1322 Flightcrew alerting

25.1323 Airspeed indicating system

25.1324 Angle of attack system

25.1325 Static pressure systems

25.1326 Pitot heat indication systems

25.1327 Magnetic direction indicator

25.1329 Flight guidance system

25.1331 Instruments using a power supply

25.1333 Instrument systems

25.1337 Powerplant instruments

25.1351 General

25.1353 Electrical equipment and installations

25.1355 Distribution system

25.1357 Circuit protective devices

25.1360 Precautions against injury

25.1362 Electrical supplies for emergency conditions

25.1363 Electrical system tests

25.1365 Electrical appliances, motors, and transformers

25.1381 Instrument lights

25.1383 Landing lights

25.1385 Position light system installation

25.1387 Position light system dihedral angles

25.1389 Position light distribution and intensities

25.1391 Minimum intensities in the horizontal plane of forward and rear position lights

25.1393 Minimum intensities in any vertical plane of forward and rear position lights

25.1395 Maximum intensities in overlapping beams of forward and rear position lights

25.1397 Color specifications

25.1399 Riding light

25.1401 Anticollision light system

25.1403 Wing icing detection lights

25.1411 General

25.1415 Ditching equipment

25.1419 Ice protection

25.1420 Supercooled large drop icing conditions

25.1421 Megaphones

25.1423 Public address system

25.1431 Electronic equipment

25.1433 Vacuum systems

25.1435 Hydraulic systems

25.1438 Pressurization and pneumatic systems

25.1439 Protective breathing equipment

25.1441 Oxygen equipment and supply

25.1443 Minimum mass flow of supplemental oxygen

25.1445 Equipment standards for the oxygen distributing system

25.1447 Equipment standards for oxygen dispensing units

25.1449 Means for determining use of oxygen

25.1450 Chemical oxygen generators

25.1453 Protection of oxygen equipment from rupture

25.1455 Draining of fluids subject to freezing

25.1457 Cockpit voice recorders

25.1459 Flight data recorders

25.1461 Equipment containing high energy rotors

25.1501 General

25.1503 Airspeed limitations: general

25.1505 Maximum operating limit speed

25.1507 Maneuvering speed

25.1511 Flap extended speed

25.1513 Minimum control speed

25.1515 Landing gear speeds

25.1516 Other speed limitations

25.1517 Rough air speed, VRA

25.1519 Weight, center of gravity, and weight distribution

25.1521 Powerplant limitations

25.1522 Auxiliary power unit limitations

25.1523 Minimum flight crew

25.1525 Kinds of operation

25.1527 Ambient air temperature and operating altitude

25.1529 Instructions for Continued Airworthiness

25.1531 Maneuvering flight load factors

25.1533 Additional operating limitations

25.1535 ETOPS approval

25.1541 General

25.1543 Instrument markings: general

25.1545 Airspeed limitation information

25.1547 Magnetic direction indicator

25.1549 Powerplant and auxiliary power unit instruments

25.1551 Oil quantity indication

25.1553 Fuel quantity indicator

25.1555 Control markings

25.1557 Miscellaneous markings and placards

25.1561 Safety equipment

25.1563 Airspeed placard

25.1581 General

25.1583 Operating limitations

25.1585 Operating procedures

25.1587 Performance information

25.1701 Definition

25.1703 Function and installation: EWIS

25.1705 Systems and functions: EWIS

25.1707 System separation: EWIS

25.1709 System safety: EWIS

25.1711 Component identification: EWIS

25.1713 Fire protection: EWIS

25.1715 Electrical bonding and protection against static electricity: EWIS

25.1717 Circuit protective devices: EWIS

25.1719 Accessibility provisions: EWIS

25.1721 Protection of EWIS

25.1723 Flammable fluid fire protection: EWIS

25.1725 Powerplants: EWIS

25.1727 Flammable fluid shutoff means: EWIS

25.1729 Instructions for Continued Airworthiness: EWIS

25.1731 Powerplant and APU fire detector system: EWIS

25.1733 Fire detector systems, general: EWIS

25.1801 SFAR No. 111—Lavatory Oxygen Systems

Appendix A to Part 25

Appendix B to Part 25

Appendix C to Part 25

Appendix D to Part 25

Appendix E to Part 25

Appendix F to Part 25

Appendix H to Part 25—Instructions for Continued Airworthiness

Appendix I to Part 25—Installation of an Automatic Takeoff Thrust Control System (ATTCS)

Appendix J to Part 25—Emergency Evacuation

Appendix K to Part 25—Extended Operations (ETOPS)

Appendix L to Part 25—HIRF Environments and Equipment HIRF Test Levels

Appendix M to Part 25—Fuel Tank System Flammability Reduction Means

Appendix N TO Part 25—Fuel Tank Flammability Exposure and Reliability Analysis

Appendix O to Part 25—Supercooled Large Drop Icing Conditions

“...On December 17, 1903, the Wright brothers launched the era of human flight...” [deport, post 79]

The Wrights weren’t even close to being first. Not even the first heavier-than air aviators.

In November 1783, Pilatre de Rozier undertook the first free flight carrying a human, on board a hot air balloon built by Joseph-Michel Montgolfier and Jacques-Étienne Montgolfier.

On 1 December 1783, the first ascent by humans aboard a hydrogen-filled balloon occurred in Paris, France.

Ascents did not remain trivial very long. Two men carried by a balloon crossed the English Channel on 7 January 1785. The first air disaster followed in May 1785, when a balloon crashed into a town in Ireland, igniting a fire than destroyed some 100 houses.

In 1794, the French observed movements of Austrian forces from a balloon. During the American Civil War, Thaddeus S C Lowe made a number of ascents in surveillance of Confederate forces.

German inventor Franz Leppich attempted to interest Napoleon’s French government in attack via airship; after the French turned him down, he approached the Russians, and actually began construction of prototypes. One ascended, but its human oarsmen could not generate sufficient power to fly into the wind.

The first manned dirigible flew in 1852, powered by a steam engine. The first dirigible powered by an internal combustion engine flew in 1898.

During the Franco-Austrian War (1859) and the Franco-Prussian War (1870-71), Napoleon III’s forces lofted observation balloons. The Prussians became concerned enough to build specialized anti-aircraft guns.

The Wrights could not lay claim to launching the first heavier-than-air flight. Many others predated them, but documentation is spotty; the best known example is Hiram S Maxim, who designed and built a large flying machine powered by a 300 hp steam engine. During trial runs in 1894, it actually lifted its restraining rails off the ground. A crash was narrowly averted.

Wilbur & Orville Wright are properly celebrated for their research & development in controllability, systems engineering, and propeller design/construction. Their work paved the way for later advances in aerodynamics and aeronautics.

You may be onto something, power the planes with large capacitors and skilfully place lightning conductors and collection plates on the surface of the plane.... of course, the pilots would have to be protected from Arc flash.../silliness

“More EV-Everything Fantasy Porn. Nothing more.”

Yep. It is amazing. All these airlines falling all over each other to buy some prototype electric planes. Startup companies building electric planes. For what???

Basically to get WOKE bragging rights. Nothing more.

You’re not accounting for the FAA’s coming “Emergency Use Authorization” to fast track electric planes. They are going to borrow the FDA’s method. If it works for “vaccines,” it’s good enough for commercial aircraft.

After all, we ARE in a Climate Emergency and we need to “do something.”

Battery fire at sea level ain’t too cool either. No pun intended. What about lightning strikes?...?

I’ll work on that.

Why would anyone in their right mind go to a startup company that has never built anything for a lightweight generator let alone an electric airplane?

The world and the people in it are incredibly screwed up.

Granted.

Nice work if you can get it!

A GRANT that is!........................😜

They already had electric planes when I was a kid.

The biggest problem, naturally, was running out of battery.

Grants are what run such charades. The bet is that they may make something of the effort and get lucky.

My uncle ad two wooden legs. He burned to the ground.

Wouldn’t that be assault with a battery?

The madness continues.

I’m ashamed to see the company that I worked 32.5 years for is leading the Woke Parade.

I’m glad that I will never be assigned to be in Command of an electric airplane.

Who knows? This may actually lead to something ................ besides bankruptcy.............................

Hey darling! Great to cyber-see-ya!

Are you telling me you have got gas?

{{{{HUGS}}}}