Posted on 05/02/2022 12:57:08 PM PDT by Jan_Sobieski
Do you think Deposing a Democratically Elected President is a good way to alienate voters?
The Ukrainians should take this one step further and arrest and deport anyone found to have a Russian passport.
Thus proving President Putin right that Russians are being persecuted in Eastern Ukraine.
Good Grief, just drop it.
“That does make me feel better, but I wonder whether you would have been in favor of detaining Japanese-Americans in California during WWII, which was most certainly an existential crisis in the US.”
What’s lost in that discussion is the fact that Italian-Americans and German-Americans were also detained during the war, although not nearly in the same numbers as the Japanese-Americans.
My family in the Boston area saw ten acres of their property made into an Italian detention camp during that war so I’m a little more aware of this issue than most. After the war the cheeky Italians bought the place from my grandparents for an Italian community center. Making lemons out of lemonade.
The issue with the Japanese was complicated by the American experience with the Chinese from approximately forty years earlier. The Chinese Tong Wars were often linked to factions of Chinese having stated loyalties to the Chinese Emperor. The Tong Wars left a mark on the collective American conscience and when the matter of WW2 came along there were a number of American-born Japanese who went to Japan to serve the Emperor.
Enough Japanese-Americans did this that it caused deep concerns within the FBI and the War Department. Being involved in an existential war in which Japanese forces were expected to land on the US mainland the calculus was to round them all up instead of risking them organizing as a fifth column behind the lines.
While we see this event through the rose colored glasses of hindsight the documents of the time reveal the motivations of the time and they were abundantly practical given the general mobilization for war.
We would like to think we’re so much better than this but were war to break out between China/Russia and the US we could expect to see similar arrests and detainments take place in our time.
Myself, I think it’s best to avoid these difficult situations by not getting into wars.
But where the current war is not of our choosing then I guess we’ll see.
On the flip side I am not so glib that I take my own position for granted. Biden could easily be supporting Russia and I could be ‘the enemy’ for supporting Ukraine. In that circumstance I could see getting a visit from the FBI for my support of Ukraine.
Maybe I’d end up in jail. The same donations I legally make to Ukraine right now could be a crime.
Odd how history so often hinges on small personal details.
“Thus proving President Putin right that Russians are being persecuted in Eastern Ukraine. Good Grief, just drop it.”
If they’re Russian citizens then they have no business claiming to be Ukrainians when it suits them.
Be Ukrainian or be Russian. Pick one.
“Your timing is incorrect. Armed militants drove Yanukovich out of the country. THEN the vote happened in Parliament. Hence, the term Euromaiden Revolution! Why do you need an armed Revolution in a Democracy when you can vote them out? In 2014, 50+ percent of Ukraine voters were disenfranchised.”
Again with the Russian talking points.
Euromaidan began in late November, 2013 in response to Yanukovich following Russia’s “encouragement” and doing an about-face and working against Parliament’s pro-Europe measures; Yanukovich went against Parliament and aligned with Russia.
The protests turned more violent in January, 2014.
On February 21, 2014 Yanukovich left Kiev for Kharkiv (which, perhaps you don’t know, is in Ukraine). The next day, February 22, 2014 the Ukrainian Parliament held the vote to remove him from office, with the intent to hold new elections. Yanukovich left Kharkiv for Moscow shortly thereafter.
“In 2014, 50+ percent of Ukraine voters were disenfranchised.”
Bull crap. You must be referencing the Tsargrad.tv “report,” which has been debunked. Cite your source for your comment.
—> You don’t think the US arrested people helping Japan and Germany in WWII?
After the dictator Zelensky outlawed all political parties other than his own, and stripped the media of the right to freely report, I’m not surprised he is sending troops to persecute all that publish individually using the internet.
Dictators never allow freedom.
It is the same in Russia.
“Coup? The Ukrainian Parliament voted to toss Yanukovich (similar to an impeachment here in the US)”
That vote was AFTER they stormed the Parliament. That’s a lie to claim it was a normal democratic process. The government and opposition reached an agreement on early elections and a unity government with the opposition. The opposition leaders were on stage and telling the crowd of the plan. former boxing champion and opposition leader Vitaly Klitschko was fully endorsing the plan and was on stage when the emotion driven kid in camo jumped up and grabbed the microphone.
A 26 year old western Uke jumped on stage and threatened to storm the place if the government was not dissolved in 24 hours.
https://nypost.com/2014/02/25/meet-the-man-who-forced-ukraines-president-to-run-for-his-life/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ude6JX3YxVI
The crowd was passing a coffin around of one of the 77 shot by Right Sector and the 26 year old whipped the crowd up and said if he is not gone by 10am, we are going on an armed assault.
Yes, it was a coup.
“The hypocrisy is outrageous.”
We’re talking geopolitics, which is not about sincerity. In geopolitics, the only thing to be sincere about is “America First”. Russia should be putting Russia first, but instead CatherPutin is gallivanting around on military adventurism, not because it advances any Russian interest, but because he wants to be an emperor, even if it means a fratricidal war that helps nobody but raises the price of oil, which gives him more money to fight more war. After grabbing pieces of Georgia and Ukraine, who will be next?
Because of this war, Russia is becoming a satellite of China. Because of this war, Russia is making itself a pariah in Europe and elsewhere. Because of this war, the alienation of Ukrainians from their Russian and Byalarus cousins is becoming more profound, with yet another grievance. Oh, and so long as you’re upset about arrests in Ukraine for expressing opposing points of view, in Russia publicly demonstrating against the government gets you up to 15 years of prison.
But don’t worry, the loss of Russian and Ukrainian wheat, sunflowers and fertilizers will at least cause some mass starvation in Africa, and we haven’t seen that for a while. Thanks, CatherPutin.
“I’m shaking my head at the Ukrainian cops who are seizing guns from loyal citizens and militia in the middle of a war.”
That’s because when they started freely handing out AKs in Kiev, roadblocks went up manned by criminal gangs. Rifle fire started going off constantly despite no Russian being within 30 miles of Kiev.
What part of being driven out by gunfire, before unconstitutionality being voted out, don’t you understand?!
If my son were fighting age, I’d strongly discourage him from enlisting. He already fought for George Bush and his bs, that’s enough.
Unless Putin escalates this beyond Ukraine I see no reason for other countries to do more than arm and give aid to them. And even then, European soldiers should be first to fight. But it’s all fluid now- who knows what Russia will do. I never thought they’d do this- figured Putin for a smarter man.
George Soros’ virtue-signaling Ukraine stooges are thrilled by this, and they just want it to happen here.
They can’t wait to kick in our doors and herd us to a ditch and shoot us in the back of the head for the crime of not being a RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA warmonger like them.
Great comment.
L
It’s more complicated than that. Yanukovych was elected, yes, but he was not deposed by a coup. He foed Ukraine after the country found out he deal he did in Russia on 17th December 2013 effectively handed the country to Russia.
He was elected to sort the economy out and stabilise their ailing economy, and his government had majority support from all main political parties for free trade relationships with the EU as well as Russia.
The Putin deal was set up by Russia to fail, as a clause included Moscow having direct influence over the Ukrainian finances if Ukraine defaulted on its payments.
Yanokovych single handedly mothballed the eu trade deal at the same time.Somehow he had a billion dollars to set him up in exile in Russia. People took another look at his election funding and surprise surprise, he’d been bankrolled by Russia.
Put it this way: If you think the last American Presidential election was stolen and the Jan 6 protests didn’t go far enough, imagine how furious you’d have been if you found out Putin had been not just bought and paid for Biden’s election but Biden had returned the favor by signing over the Federal Reserve in return for a billion dollar kickback.
Ukraine was a corrupt country but I don’t think even its own politicians thought the corruption would go THAT far. And all but three regions of Ukraine went postal when they found out.
If the same happened in the USA you’d have your own Maidan, and you’d likely feel more than a bit cross with California if it suded with the sellout.
Everything about the coup to replace Democratically Elected President Yanukovich was unconstitutional, including the vote to replace him. Why not constitutionally impeach him using the Judicial System to expose his avarice and Russian Kickbacks? Or vote him out in the next free and fair election? The Revolution served the cause of western Ukrainian radicals, at the expense of the Russian speaking East and South. Hence, the disenfranchised States seceded and we have civil war. The Obama/Biden administrations have done to Ukraine what they did to Libya, Egypt, and Syria. Now they are close to dragging us into Nuclear Conflict
The main violence was in January, 2014. Yanukovich was still very much president of Ukraine until late February, 2014. He had assurances from Russia of support, but when Parliament came up with the articles of impeachment he knew the gig was up and he beat feet, with the help of Russian Spetsnaz.
Lol. Vote him out in the next free and fair election?!
Ukraine defaulted on its payments to Russia within three months of Yanokovych signing the deal. He must’ve known the risk.
“Fait accompli” - Yanokovych had knowingly handed Ukraine to Putin on a silver platter, driving a coach and horses through the commitments in the Budapest Memorandum.
If they’d waited for the next election, there wouldn’t have even been a Ukraine - Putin would’ve carved the Oblasts up long before it.
If you hold the view that Biden stole the election, what would you say to people in the “ah, well, very naughty but it’ll all be fixed if we wait for years waiting for the next election” camp? And if three states seceded from the USA because they agreed with the steal, would that invalidate the protests across all other states? And if the seceding states wanted to formally adopt Biden’s Deep State bosses as their new leadership, would you be happy with that too?
“What part of being driven out by gunfire, before unconstitutionality being voted out, don’t you understand?!”
Ah, you must be referring to the self-serving comment of Yanukovich wherein he said his car “was shot at” (but not, of course, hit) as he fled Kiev. There has been no evidence to support that claim at all. No one knew he was leaving Kiev except his Russian Spetsnaz detail and perhaps a couple cronies. Besides, if his car had been shot at you can be sure the Spetsnaz would have returned fire with gusto. But, not a word, a photo, a report, or a hic-cup about such a gunfight. Isn’t that curious?
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