Posted on 04/16/2022 10:56:11 AM PDT by MinorityRepublican
FORT IRWIN, Calif. -- In the dusty California desert, U.S. Army trainers are already using lessons learned from Russia's war against Ukraine as they prepare soldiers for future fights against a major adversary such as Russia or China.
The role-players in this month's exercise at the National Training Center speak Russian. The enemy force that controls the fictional town of Ujen is using a steady stream of social media posts to make false accusations against the American brigade preparing to attack.
In the coming weeks, the planned training scenario for the next brigade coming in will focus on how to battle an enemy willing to destroy a city with rocket and missile fire in order to conquer it.
If the images seem familiar, they are, playing out on televisions and websites worldwide right now as Russian forces pound Ukrainian cities with airstrikes, killing scores of civilians. The information war on social media has showcased impassioned nightly speeches by Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, as well as Russian efforts to accuse Ukraine's forces of faking mass killings in towns such as Bucha — massacres that the West blames on Moscow's troops.
“I think right now the whole Army is really looking at what’s happening in Ukraine and trying to learn lessons,” said Army Secretary Christine Wormuth. Those lessons, she said, range from Russia's equipment and logistics troubles to communications and use of the internet.
“The Russia-Ukraine experience is a very powerful illustration for our Army of how important the information domain is going to be," said Wormuth, who spent two days at the training center in the Mojave Desert watching an Army brigade wage war against the fictional “Denovian” forces.
"We’ve been talking about that for about five years. But really seeing it and seeing the way Zelenskyy has been incredibly powerful."
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
I’m afraid tanks have gone the way of the battleship.
—
As one four star put it, “Tanks, improperly deployed without CAS and troops, are sitting ducks in modern warfare. But tanks with CAS and covering troops, all properly deployed in the correct situations, are survivable, even needed. Take away the tanks and what protects the troops?”
“As one four star put it...”
If he was a tanker, he was just trying to save his job.
Look, tanks played a vital role in WWII. They also played a vital role in the Arab-Israeli wars. Other than that, they didn’t. Modern weaponry has rendered the tank pretty much obsolete, and wholly unjustified from a cost-benefit perspective.
That's what GW Bush was told by his Generals in GW2. Instead, he went for "De-Baathification". If We had just told the Generals and senior officials in Iraq they could run the country as soon as Saddam was dead, it would have been over quickly. Then after kicking Afghanistan's ass, GW decided we would win their "hearts and minds" and show them that democracy was the way. We could have walked away from Afghanistan 20 years ago, looking invincible, and kept the Baathists running Iraq as a counter to Iran. GW's 8 years cost us dearly.
And now Putin is following GW's example, right down to the deck of "most wanted" playing cards. Brilliant.
“...that are using our mostly Russian and old Soviet equipment to fight...”
Oh, I think we’ve done pretty well in supplying them with “assistance.” In the first half of March alone we sent them:
800 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
2,000 Javelin, 1,000 light anti-armor weapons, and 6,000 AT-4 anti-armor systems;
100 Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;
100 grenade launchers, 5,000 rifles, 1,000 pistols, 400 machine guns, and 400 shotguns;
Over 20 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenade launcher and mortar rounds;
25,000 sets of body armor; and
25,000 helmets.
In addition to the weapons listed above, previous United States assistance committed to Ukraine includes:
Over 600 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
Approximately 2,600 Javelin anti-armor systems;
Five Mi-17 helicopters;
Three patrol boats;
Four counter-artillery and counter-unmanned aerial system tracking radars;
Four counter-mortar radar systems;
200 grenade launchers and ammunition;
200 shotguns and 200 machine guns;
Nearly 40 million rounds of small arms ammunition and over 1 million grenade, mortar, and artillery rounds;
70 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWVs) and other vehicles;
Secure communications, electronic warfare detection systems, body armor, helmets, and other tactical gear;
Military medical equipment to support treatment and combat evacuation;
Explosive ordnance disposal and demining equipment; and
Satellite imagery and analysis capability.
And this is just what the US will admit to. And we have had instructors on the ground training the Ukraine gypsies in the use of tactical and strategic weapons for some time. Don’t buy what the media is cooking. The US is walking a fine line with trying to keep out of their civil war.
wy69
Yah yeh - that’s what we supplied them with - but the majority of their weapons are Russian or Soviet. That’s what they are fighting with. And let’s not forget that most of the items on your list are not even in Ukraine yet.
And the point was what sort of weapons are they using? A handful of western pieces that’s all - it may be a lot in your book, but its a drop in the bucket to what is need and being used.
And don’t look too closely at that list as many of those items are Russian in origin.
OK so when you go into combat you have no need of any protection from local tanks, machine gun nests, snipers, etc. Your Kevlar armor stops all of that, and the enemy, seeing your awesome protection runs away or surrenders.
Sure.
Not here holding with the FR meme about tanks. Go into combat with the Russians or Chinese without tanks and you will get slaughtered. The marine brass are idiots for giving them up. There is no reason to imagine that the Army will be able come to their rescue when they need them and the Army has said as much.
“Your Kevlar armor stops all of that, and the enemy, seeing your awesome protection runs away or surrenders. Sure.”
Now you’re being ridiculous.
I didn’t say we were supplying all the weapons to the Ukraine. I also said the country was the property of the Soviets until the early 1990’s when the Soviets disbanded officially on December 9, 1991 and the changes were made and they became the Russian Federation and assumed the Soviet Union’s rights and obligations and were recognized as its continued legal personality in world affairs.
Now, being realistic, of course they are going to have Russian weapons. They were a piece of Russia until the end of the Soviet regime and even gave them back their nuclear weapons when they separated along with Moldova, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, and the Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia.
As for the US sending Russian weapons to the Ukraine, I would be pleased if you can take the list I put up, and point out those that are from Russia or the old Soviet Union. They have received some Russian weapons but not directly from us. There are weapons in the immediate vicinity of the Ukraine from other countries that bailed on the Soviets in 1991. And yes, it would be advantages for the Ukrainees to eleviate additional training by using weapons they already know. The major weapons that Putin is unhappy about came from companies like Raytheon Technologies (RTX.N) and Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) jointly produce Javelins, while Raytheon makes Stingers. Other top weapons makers are Boeing Co (BA.N) Northrop Grumman (NOC.N), General Dynamics (GD.N) and Harris Technologies (LHX.N).
The Pentagon’s office of Acquisition and Sustainment, the weapons buyer for the U.S. Department of Defense, has been fielding increased demand from European allies hoping to ship weapons to Ukraine through third party transfers or to buy arms to bolster their own defenses, the sources said. The operation is being run in cooperation with the U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency, which oversees weapons sales and transfers to other countries for the Department of Defense. And we aren’t really doing the shipping of our own weapons. The Pentagon has stressed that smaller systems such as Javelin anti-tank systems and Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, which allies are shipping to Ukraine via truck near-daily, are the most useful.
There’s a lot more to this than people are told. It’s called OPSEC and COMSEC. And it keeps us out of the game so we don’t have to get people hurt.
wy69
Well said.
Yabbut, who was that old commie that said
“quantity has a quality all it’s own?”
Or something like that.
Pretty much was the essence of what I always understood about the Red army. Massive numbers.
Russia no longer has the massive numbers of soldiers because it reduced the size of its Cold War army due to expense and the loss of the mostly Moslem “stan republics” as well as Ukraine and Belarus. The current Russian army is about 2/3d’s the size of the US Army. During the post Cold War reorganization, the Russians eliminated most of the division level commands and formed Battalion Tactical Groups, 2 or 3 of which form a Brigade, with 2 or 3 brigades assigned to an Combined Arms Army. This has been a radical reduction of the Soviet Army that many of us old US Army Europe soldiers faced along the East/West German border.
Alright guys, who wants to be in the tank corp?
“Why is the sky blue? Because God loves the Infantry!”
And why is the sky red in the morning and red in the evening? Because you’ll need the Engineers before you start and after you’re done.
First in, last out.
Essayons!
The reasons why Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is failing are informative.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.