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To: JonPreston

Before all the emotional and ignorant posts show up; keep these facts in mind (or try to refute them with facts not ad hominem or straw man attacks):

Putin is not a dictator. There are elections in Russia and at this point they are probably cleaner than what we have. Like it or not he has strong support.

Putin is not a communist. Maybe you have been asleep since 1990? Certainly you have never listened to any of his speeches or press conferences.

The Soviet Union has been gone for while now folks.

As part of that dissolution, in 1991 NATO committed to Russia that they would never expand east of East Germany. There were also assurances given that NATO would dissolve once Russia stabilized.

NATO is an anachronistic organization created to counter soviet communism. It points guns at Russia. It engages in anti Russian propaganda. It promotes economic sanctions and other hard to justify anti Russian actions.

I fully supported NATO’s mission prior to the fall of the Soviet Union. I find its continued existence unnecessary, provocative, and dangerous.

Russia has been complaining about NATO for decades. Putin has been issuing specific warnings for years that continued expansion would trigger a serious confrontation.

Joe Biden ‘leaked’ to China that Ukraine was about to join NATO. This would put NATO on the Russian border which Russia has warned repeatedly would not be tolerated.

NATO got a reaction. And NATO is responsible. If the situation was reversed and the US was facing the same circumstances we would have ‘reacted’ years ago. All of this rhetoric about Putin being a communist dictator that wants to eat Europe is not supported by facts. In my view it is propaganda designed to manipulate the emotions of people who have no understanding of the basic facts involved. Like much of the leadership in West. Sigh.

So people then point me to the Crimea.

Russia took Crimea back because until Stalin bizarrely gave it to Ukraine in the 1940’s. It was always part of Russia and it was populated by Russians 90% of whom wanted to rejoin Russia. It is also extremely important to Russia geographically. Given our history, I don’t think we are in a position to throw too many stones there.

Eastern Ukraine is also populated by mostly Russians, and a large majority want to rejoin Russia. Now that is an unfortunately legacy of Stalin again - but there it is a factor.

The attack on western Ukraine was probably driven by Russia wanting to prevent the possibility of NATO moving in troops. I can understand the move strategically but it’s ugly.

If not for the NATO angle I would also condemn Putin. But this situation exists because of irrational and aggressive action by western Europe under the guise of NATO.

Leftist, globalist, Western leaders are responsible for the current depressing state of affairs in Ukraine. And now they are baying for WWIII with the most dangerous nuclear power on the planet.

What is really at play here behind the scenes specifically concerning western Ukraine?


25 posted on 03/28/2022 1:06:16 PM PDT by TheTimeOfMan (The Eloi unexpectedly protected the Morlocks from rogue Eloi as they themselves prepared to be eaten)
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To: TheTimeOfMan

Sorry Jon - meant to post that to ALL


26 posted on 03/28/2022 1:06:46 PM PDT by TheTimeOfMan (The Eloi unexpectedly protected the Morlocks from rogue Eloi as they themselves prepared to be eaten)
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To: TheTimeOfMan

All of your points are so wrong. Putin changed the constitution to make himself president for life even if that is not his title. He is a dictator. Their elections may be cleaner than our last one but that isn’t saying much. Musk says Putin is the real richest man in the world. Putin is a Soviet nostalgia guy whether he is economic communist or not. He was a career KGB man. He brutalizes his own people. He crushes free speech. He is also mentally unstable as his long table pictures demonstrate.

Your stats on Crimea are all wrong. Even Tatars are over ten percent again. I had family there who were patriotic Ukrainians. They had to leave when the green uniforms showed up. There was zero “Separatist” movement until Putin’s thugs started one with arms, money, threats, coercion, and mafia tactics.

Most Russian speakers in the eastern provinces are Ukrainians who speak Russian. They are not ethnic Russians. Last names tell the story. My wife is from the DonBas and hates Russians and really hates Putin.


36 posted on 03/28/2022 1:24:05 PM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (To the barricades !!!)
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