Posted on 02/22/2022 5:07:23 AM PST by qwerty1234
A question for all you current and former military folks:
I have young relative recently accepted to medical school. He is exploring joining the national guard, both to help pay for medical school and because he is also very service oriented - however he (and I) are actually unclear what the legal 'gotchas' are - the recruiter he has spoken to have all made it sound quite simple - a weekend a month, couple of weeks in the summer, and possibly being activated for some national emergency for a short time (i.e. Katrina type situation) - and with that commitment for X number of years, they will basically pay for most of his medical school (so no small benefit to him)
However, to me that seems to simplistic and too good to be true? Once you sign on the dotted line, I have always understood that they basically own you - and that 2 weeks in the summer might turn into 3 years in Iraq or Ukraine - or any place else - at the whims/needs of the military. I am wrong about that?
He is not actually opposed to having to serve overseas, not even for semi-extended periods if needed - but doesn't want to be tricked into it -and worries that if he doesn't truly understand what he is signing - and gets doesn't get the buy in from his wife who is clear ahead of time what he is agreeing to - that he will end up overseas for years, and divorced because "she didn't sign up for this".
What is the real scoop when you joing the guard as a medical professional? He just needs all the information so he can make an informed choice.
https://www.airforcemedicine.af.mil/Organizations/Physician-Education-Branch/Medical-School-Scholarships/
The doctors there are in high demand and they start out as O-3 (Captains). Most are commissioned in their residency years too (three year accelerated medical school program), so the pathway to commission is shorter.
All military branches have been tailored recently to be more reactive to international issues and the question of short term and long term deployment is an issue he will have to sort out.
On the plus side, the USAF tends to have better and newer facilities than the other branches. Also if deployed, he would likely be at a base level hospital rather than a field unit.
There have been cases where all branches have contributed medical people to field level units, particularly first level trauma care units. The possibility is still there but IMO, less likely for USAF personnel as compared to army and navy personnel.
In an all out conflict like Desert Storm all bets are off. The needs of the service will prevail.
Only a regular commission.
Most commissioning programs offer a reserve commission, which functions much like a term of enlistment. Once the commitment is complete, the officer receives a formal discharge. It's those with a regular commission who remain "on the books", so to speak, and must formally resign their commission to avoid any future commitments.
Remember how the various Guard used were sent to DC after January 6th and housed in a parking garage with no heat, poor food, and no real mission? That's fairly typical.
So the best advice is to go in with eyes wide open to the reality vs. the recuritment ads and happy talk.
Not sure how they treat Med Students, but my son was in the NG as a medic and his unit was deployed twice in a six-year stint for a year each 10-12 years ago: once in Kosovo the year they declared their independence (with the accompanying riots) and once to Kuwait where he was on a quick reaction force occasionally in and out of Iraq.
If your son has a family, he should be prepared to be away for an extended period of time. Who knows what these Bozos in the white hut can dream up?
>>He was accepted into several, and will make a final choice soon; not sure which way he is leaning.
If he is accepted into several medical schools, then clearly he is very intelligent. Seems to me that anybody who can get accepted into multiple medical schools is a desirable enough student that he should have no problems getting a partial or full scholarship, thus bypassing the whole "National Guard to pay for Med School" issue.
Unless he were in an education/commissioning program, I can't see how he could possibly juggle Med School and Guard obligations simultaneously anyway.
So reservists are individually plugged into units they qualify for to temporarily replace active duty service members? A few acquaintances I have who served in Iraq and Afghanistan have a bit of contempt for reservists (wrongly I felt, the guys are deploying to war zones after all), but at least back then, it sounded to me from their stories that reservists were activated as units and placed as units in roles deemed by the active duty guys as somewhat “lame”.
I went active duty Army after high school. One regreat was that i only ever talked with the Army recruiter. If i did talk with the other branches i may have still gone into the Army, but who knows. Each service will have their own recruitment missions and depending on date of entry and various incentives and projections of each services’ needs a year to 18 months out, your son may as others have said see better options in the Air Force possibly. Also, not counting long deployments, there is still a lot of stress for a young couple just with one spouse in the service. I had a less than great time at Bragg for three years as a married E3/E4. Things worked out ok and here we are 30 years later but i am not sure if given a chance for a redo if i would still sign up or if i should have just started community college and transfer to four year school to finish the BS degree. Sounds like your son is in a much better position but certainly he should at least talk with all of the services before making such a commitment.
I spent 31 years in the military (Air Force) and retired over 20 years ago. I had a great career flying, staff and command jobs. However today, I would not recommend any young person join our military. Most on here have talked about deployments, which I guess is your basic question, but my reasons have to do with what our military has become. First, it is really not supported by the nation, especially half of the nation. In Congress, Democrats abhor it and many Republicans give lip service to it. It is the first to get budget cuts while funding for illegals and social programs take priority. When funds are provided, those funds are typically earmarked for the latest and greatest equipment while pay and personnel programs take a hit. Promises on retirement and other “benefits” are consistently changed to the detriment of the member.
When one joins the military, one gives up a certain amount of rights, like some free speech, not demonstrating or being an activist in uniform (though whether there is a consequence of their action depends on what party or topic is supported), but one shouldn’t have to give up all the rights specified in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. In todays political and woke military, members/patriots are being separated because they have religious objections to the jab and their religious objections are not even being considered. Members who have strong patriotic views are being “hunted” for separation because their thoughts are considered “white supremacists” and “enemies of the state” using whatever definition the military wants to use. The military has become the thought police as in civilian society, but being identified as non-woke or expressing not accepted ideas has much more dire consequences than it does in civilian life.
Today’s military leader (Sec Def) and The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and several if not all the Secretaries and Chiefs of Staff are placing wokeness and diversity over readiness. When that happens, people die unnecessarily.
In the past, members were promoted for the most part, based on time in service and qualifications in their specialty. Today, the priority has shifted from qualification to whether you are a member of a protected group and those groups are given special consideration. That was going on long before I retired, but not to the extent it is today. When one joins the military, one joins an organization that really has control over your life, both professional and personal. When the leaders of that organization decide to force compliance on thought, actions and adherence to ideas not in the basic mission of the organization, members who do not comply can have not only their careers destroyed, but their life destroyed by how that person is separated. That is what our military has become and why I do not recommend anyone to join. Here is link to a recent article about the Air Force which more clearly states some of what I have said: https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/4040413/posts
First off, DoD is currently mandating ChinaVirus shots for EVERYBODY - including Guard. OK has said they won’t enforce it, but I haven’t seen yet if NGB is going to cut them off completely from the Federal side - which means funding is 100% State, and any schools (E5, E6, airborne, pathfinder, fuel handler, etc etc etc) that OK doesn’t have, they likely won’t have access to. Abbott in TX has said no one will be fired in the State from not getting experimental shots, BUT TXARNG is still kicking us out - drills and AT is federally funded from NGB, so while TX won’t ‘kick you out’, you don’t get paid for drills so you count as AWOL so then Texas WILL kick you out for “AWOL”, not for “shot refusal”. If you’re in any other State, I haven’t heard anything about them fighting this. So, getting in now WILL require the shot, unless he wants to wait until 2025FEB, once Trump or another Repub takes over the executive. Or the courts kill it, but I’m kinda doubting they’ll have the stones to do so.
First, you’ll have a couple days where you go into MEPS, and do some basic medical and other paperwork. Usually overnight at a hotel, then they run you through the next day. Everything goes good, sign your enlistment contract, and after that you’ll get a date set to leave for basic. Basic training is about two months, assuming he gets through everything fine, no key fails or medical issues. He’ll then get a date set for AIT, so home for a bit, then 68W is I believe ~5 months. Not sure if there’s other medical MOSs that are shorter. 68W miiight be OSUT (Basic/AIT mashed together), I know most combat arms MOSs are, so your break in between is a weekend, instead of days or weeks.
Then he’ll get to his unit, and from there it’s pretty much two days a month, two weeks a year. Many units mix it up, so you may have two months of three-day drill, then skip a month. Four days one, then a month off. AT is usually summer-ish, and is 15 days but units often mesh the start or finish with monthly drill so it’s a bit longer straight through. Any schools he might get sent to will take from a couple days/a week (fuel handler, full CLS, drug test peepee watcher, etc) to a couple weeks or months (E5+, airborne, pathfinder, etc). Most of these schools are decently optional, but never a good idea career-wise to pass up (BLC/ALC/etc is required for promotions past E4).
State missions will come up - hurricanes, tornados, winter weather, etc. These are often a text saying so many people (or the whole unit) has to report by 1800 tonight/midday tomorrow, generally minimum 4-hr notice to be at the unit, but can come at any time. Sometimes you’ll get a warno if they’re expecting some really bad weather, or go in before it hits. These can last anywhere from sitting around for a day or two and doing nothing, to longer - we were stuck at Harvey for about a month, and some other guys were there longer. The Dems’ DC show-of-strength was a couple months for some. TX’s border mission is currently non-volunteer, and is anywhere from 6 months to a full year. CoViD orders were on a mostly volunteer basis, and have gone past a year for some people (think they elected to stay longer though, it’s good pay/active time).
Overseas deployments do happen, but have been pretty slow since Obama/Repub sequester and cutbacks. These usually vary from 9 months to a year. If you want to go on them, most units are short and will fill slots from other units based on needs - ranks, MOSs, #bodies. But where it used to be 2-3 years between a unit’s cycles, it’s now a good bit more.
If he’s in school - this can vary. I don’t know if ROTC accepts graduate students, but if he can do that, ROTC puts him in a non-deployable status (even for most natural disaster missions). But ROTC has other time commitments, varying from school to school. And as Guard, you’ll be 09S/09R - still doing monthly drills and AT with a unit on top of ROTC stuff. If he is NOT in ROTC, you can still do school and command will usually work with you to try to avoid forcing you to miss school, but you don’t have the same deployment protection as a contracted cadet.
OCS is another option if he already has a degree: two(?) months over summer and he commissions as an officer. Better pay, and best to do this quick if you plan to stay in a longer time. Not sure what the requirements are to be an Army physician (and not just a medic or med tech) in MED command, but he’d definitely need to be an officer. Also, I don’t know if he can go straight OCS - he may have to enlist first and go through basic/AIT before then doing OCS.
Another option besides tuition assistance, is to enlist AFTER school - SLRP is a loan repayment program, that can pay off I think up to $60M of existing student loans. However, he wouldn’t get any TA or other benefits during school doing this. If he has bachelor/masters loans, he could do this now, and then get TA/stuff for the graduate stuff, but he’s be stuck enlisted for I think six years for SLRP. Could always do OCS after that though.
If he’s medical, they sometimes have odd duty times - he may get multiple ATs in a year, or have extra callups if he’s in a med command, for the purpose of running other units through pre-mob, de-mob, annual medical, or other stuff. These can be long/depend on other units coming through and how many. If he’s in a regular support or line unit, that extra stuff wouldn’t apply outside of what the rest of the unit does.
wow thanks for the very long and detailed response - lots to think about, but I will pass all the information along.
Overall it does sound like enlisting after graduating is the safer bet - but not my decision, just helping to collect the pros and cons. Thanks again.
“I have who served in Iraq and Afghanistan have a bit of contempt for reservists”
Must be because when we would deploy we know how to deploy. When we go we take the kitchen sink. We also know how to forage for resources. We have civilian experience in trades where we do not have to rely on the system. Just because you active guys cannot setup shop and have the movies rolling before the BBQ starts all while running a successful mission is not my problem. We were called on by name for support from the AC units and expressively the Marines demanded our support. I’d be pissed to if I was in your sad shoes.
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