Here is where the latest threadjacking attempt took place. The person tried to turn it into a thread about Andrea Rossi.
Since Rossi isn’t really a scientist submitting his findings for peer review but more of a tinkerer trying to become a trillionaire, that is a bit like learning magic from watching a magician.
https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/1199-ugo-abundo-parkhomov-replications/
21 posted on 9/30/2021, 12:26:42 PM by bhl
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3999491/posts?page=21#21
To: bhl
Rossi did just that. He attracted an investor called Industrial Heat. After some very questionable maneuvers from both sides, Rossi won the lawsuit filed by Industrial Heat against him.
They wanted his Intellectual Property, which is quizzical because they claimed it was worthless. They did not get it. Rossi wanted his $80Mil for demo’ing the device. He did not get it.
IH alleged fraud against Rossi; they lost. No fraud charges were forwarded against Rossi to the District Attorney, which would have had lots of data to proceed from the civil trial. In that manner, it is proven that Rossi is NOT a fraud , whether criminal or civil [civil charges are easier to prove than criminal], when it comes to this technology.
Feel free to pick up the phone and call the Florida District Attorney to bring their attention to this supposed $89Million Fraud. No one has done so. In the meantime, Rossi still has No Mercato, so he’s got No Veritas. I really don’t give a flying fig about Rossi unless he starts selling his “Impossible Invention”.
29 posted on 9/30/2021, 1:04:02 PM by Kevmo
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3999491/posts?page=29#29
To: Kevmo
If you have a link to a documented and 3rd party witnessed experiment that involved heating water in a closed system (gasoline/propane generator as input) please let me know. Obviously, for the test to be a success, the water heated would have to be greater than could be done with known chemical means. It should also be witnessed by a competent and independent 3rd party.
The reason heating water is important is because the science can be understood by a high school physics student and demonstrates the definition of a calorie, a fundamental unit of energy.
He is a snake oil salesman and he has wasted countless hours of people’s time following his easily debunked and easily verified claims. If Rossi wants to sue me for defamation, he can go right ahead. I’d be happy to take a deposition.
Not being sued for fraud is not an indicator that his product does anything. Anyone can hire a lawyer to weasel out of having to deliver a working product. He isn’t selling anything because he doesn’t have a source of “excess heat”. And of course producing heat 2% over chemical heating would bring him the trillions..
Hate to be the one to break it to you.. but he never had a working system, knew it, and continued to lie and produce phony demonstrations. Because people wanted to believe the nice old man from Italy had found a solution to a desperate world need.
34 posted on 9/30/2021, 2:05:39 PM by bhl
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3999491/posts?page=34#34
To: bhl
Pons and Fleischmann were renowned experts in calorimetry. Their experiment has been replicated at least 153 times.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3963819/posts
No other controversial experiment even comes close to that number of peer reviewed replications. Dolly the Sheep was replicated ONCE.
38 posted on 9/30/2021, 4:31:37 PM by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: Kevmo
P&F were looking for milliwatts of “power” where it might take a team of researchers to determine if there is anything there in excess of the noise.
Rossi made repeated claims of excess megawatts. But never demonstrated anything. He is a liar and fraud. Sad.
39 posted on 9/30/2021, 4:51:56 PM by bhl
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3999491/posts?page=39#39
To: bhl
He is a snake oil salesman
***I don’t care about Rossi and I care even less what YOU think of him. People don’t sue snake oil salesmen and then try to get their IP.
and he has wasted countless hours of people’s time following his easily debunked
***Experts in [LITERALLY] Industrial Heat could not debunk him so you are WAY off.
and easily verified claims.
***Then easily verify them. Duhh. Gigantic duhh factor.
If Rossi wants to sue me for defamation, he can go right ahead. I’d be happy to take a deposition.
***It would depend upon how much you are worth. He threatened Wikipedia for defamation and they had to withdraw a bunch of their allegations from their website. I doubt you would fare as well.
Not being sued for fraud is not an indicator that his product does anything.
***Reading aint your strong suit. He WAS sued for fraud and it did NOT hold up. You should re-evaluate your entire position on LENR, which was here before Rossi and will be here after he leaves.
Anyone can hire a lawyer to weasel out of having to deliver a working product.
***I think you’re simply full of horse manure. $89Million worth of horse manure.
He isn’t selling anything because he doesn’t have a source of “excess heat”.
***That’s an argument from silence. Classical fallacy. He isn’t selling anything. Period. By his own measure of “in mercato veritas” he has nothing in mercato so I see no reason to extend veritas to him. However, he has survived a direct attempt at stealing his IP [more than once, it is claimed by those around him] so I’ll just sit back and let him do his thing. I’m neither a detractor nor a fan.
And of course producing heat 2% over chemical heating would bring him the trillions..
***Now you’re just saying a bunch of bullshiite. You don’t even know, in historical context, what you’re asserting. 153 peer reviewed papers’ worth of historical context.
Hate to be the one to break it to you..
***I’m obviously more up to speed on the guy than you are.
but he never had a working system, knew it, and continued to lie
***Arguments from silence. Classic fallacies.
and produce phony demonstrations.
***He fooled the Industrial Heat experts at Industrial Heat, he fooled the 7 Swedish scientists who independently verified his technology. I think you underestimate him — either he’s a genius at what you call ‘phony demonstrations’ in front of experts or he’s got sumthin, sumthin that IH WANTED.
Because people wanted to believe the nice old man from Italy had found a solution to a desperate world need.
***I don’t care what people want to believe any more than I care what you believe. But while you are at it, you should admonish the Google team that spent $10M and gave Rossi credit for revitalizing the field. I believe in avoiding classic fallacies, logical reasoning, peer review, scientific method, and rational argumentation... all of which you seem to just toss. This thread aint about Rossi, so take it somewhere else. Start your own thread and see if anyone shows up. I haven’t started a Rossi thread in about a decade, but jerks like you continue to harass me about it so shove off. I was posting LENR threads before you and before Rossi, I’ll be posting about LENR long after he leaves the scene.
40 posted on 9/30/2021, 4:52:21 PM by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: bhl
Rossi demonstrated enough to attract experts in Industrial Heat to dump $89M in his scheme and then they had a falling out. You should start your own ridiculous Rossi thread because THIS thread aint about Rossi.
41 posted on 9/30/2021, 4:53:39 PM by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: bhl
Polluting the thread with Rossi nonsense.
Asked & Answered
https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
42 posted on 9/30/2021, 4:59:54 PM
What the heck are you talking about?
Could you translate please?
https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
Pons & Fleischmann’s results were never replicated.
***WHAT? Not Replicated? Where do you get that ridiculous and ignorant
claim?
Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated hundreds of times by more than a
thousand scientists, even in mainstream peer-reviewed journals.
https://springerlink3.metapress.com/content/8k5n17605m135n22/resource-secured/?target=fulltext.pdf&sid=xwvgza45j4sqpe3wceul4dv2&sh=www.springerlink.com
.
Jing-tang He
• Nuclear fusion inside condense matters
• Frontiers of Physics in China
Volume 2, Number 1, 96-102, DOI: 10.1007/s11467-007-0005-8
This article describes in detail the nuclear fusion inside condense
matters—the Fleischmann-Pons effect, the reproducibility of cold fusions,
self-consistency of cold fusions and the possible applications
.
Note that Jing-tang He found there were 14,700 replications of the Pons
Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect.
http://www.boliven.com/publication/10.1007~s11467-007-0005-8?q=(%22David%20J.%20Nagel%22)
.
National Instruments is a multibillion dollar corporation that does not
need to stick its neck out for “bigfoot stories”. After noting more than
150 replications, they recently concluded that with so much evidence of
anomalous heat generation...
http://www.22passi.it/downloads/eu_brussels_june_20_2012_concezzi.pdf
Conclusion
• THERE IS AN UNKNOWN PHYSICAL EVENT and there is a need of better
measurements and control tools. NI is playing a role in accelerating
innovation and discovery.
The current state of the science of LENR is that the Pons Fleischmann
Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated and it is an established
scientific fact. But it is not an established ENGINEERING field because the
effect is difficult to generate and there is still some lingering stigma
associated with the field. The level of pathological resistance this field
receives is unconscionable for those of us who seek scientific answers and
engineering solutions.
And, in the bigger picture, does this same approach to discussion threads now apply across FR? If I start a thread and don't like the participants, I can boot them or as moderators to boot them? Wow.
for the cold fusion ping list
If someone addresses the issue academically, they needn’t
agree with the hypothesis at all.
What they need to do is provide a scientific reason why
they think the the hypothesis is wrong, or that the results
of a test were misread.
A topic like this should have a robust debate. I see folks
try to talk in absolutes, but there is something going on
in this field, and denial isn’t productive.
People just jumping in with both feet and denying this
field is legit, aren’t helping themselves or the debate.
There are too many different groups doing studies for
this to be easily dismissed.
I’m curious how it will all turn out. It may be a
significant breakthrough. It may never pan out. It
may not pan out for another 50 to 100 years, and
then become something that is easily understood
because of a contributory discovery.
If this topic upsets you, just avoid it. You’ll be
proven right or wrong in time. You don’t need to
offend others on each thread.
Moving The Goalposts
Skeptopaths constantly move the goalposts for LENR. This doesn’t happen in any other area of science.
https://www.lenr-forum.com/search-result/66261/?highlight=moving+goalposts
https://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=skeptopath&l=vortex-l%40eskimo.com
https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
Re: [Vo]:Asked & Answered: Derision
Kevin O’Malley Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:46:54 -0700
Basic derision
***That’s all the skeptopaths seem to be able to muster. They can’t
counteract the science. They downshift into ridicule because they can get
away with it. It’s basically like saying, “hey, look, I can be an asshole
and get away with it, so that’s what I’m going to do.” It does NOTHING to
further the science. There isn’t even an attempt to refute the science
behind the claims.
The same thing happened to the Wright brothers for 5 years between the time
they first flew an airplane in 1903 and the time they had a contract to
demo against in 1908. What happened to those skeptopaths in 1904? They
were utterly discredited, but within a few weeks of the Wright brothers
demonstration, they were spouting off yet again about how things should be
done differently, better, more to their liking. It’s horse shit.