Posted on 06/27/2021 4:07:32 PM PDT by TealsGuy17
What is likely to happen with the "Still Standing"half of the condo building is probably a no win situation for the owners. The first option is a worst case scenario. The second option is after all the debris is cleared, engineers and inspectors can look for the inevitable wear and tear in the concrete supports. But does this mean they will have to dig out the entire base of the condo, maybe even close to the bedrock? Do you think anyone would want to take part of digging that hole if it comes to that? Maybe some of you out there can contemplate what will happen with the remaining units in the months to come.
The building stood for 45 years it will be hard to blame it on building codes!! Building codes in the early 80’s were far different than they are now!!
Anything is insurable. The premiums are sometimes impractical, however.
Hah! All they need to do is cut large holes in the remaining, newly-exposed concrete walls for bay windows, and add patio doors and a porch-balcony on the sea ward side!
Presto! Beach view condo’s on what used to be depressing views of the Miami slums and 3 level apartments.
One of the questions will be if it is safe enough for people to get their possessions out.
Jewish ownership of many units has already been reported.
A new form of jihad. Kill as many as possible, bankrupt the survivors.
The remaining condos and probably similar structures will be condemned and demolished out of obvious safety concerns
.....the only sane and reasonable answer. It’s a good thing that there is a Republican Governor, or else nothing sane would be done.
Empty them, then gone.
They can dig all the way to China. That doesn’t solve the problem with the water table that soaks into the concrete and causes the rebar to swell. When that rebar swells, it cracks out the concrete. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that.
Because of the problem with that ocean water table, the Champlain Towers has to be totally demolished and buildings of that size to never be built there again. All of the residences need to be refunded of the money they have paid for their condo.
I don’t think that immigration has a thing to do with the Champlain Towers collapse. The issue is the ocean water table at that location. It has been an issue since the 70’s when a plan to build there was rejected because of its unstable conditions. How the Champlain Towers got the building permit leads me to believe there was corruption involved.
Will the losses be covered by insurance?
Not related to the topic but relevant.
“The construction of sky scrapers in New York City began in downtown, around Wall St. at the lower end of Manhattan Island, but soon spread north. Here’s where things begin to get a little more interesting. New skyscrapers were not being built close to downtown, but rather were mostly being constructed in midtown, 4 miles north.
This has to do in part with the depth of the bedrock underneath the city. Large buildings need to be anchored to bedrock in order to prevent potentially uneven settling. The bedrock is within a few feet of the ground surface in Midtown, and within 40 feet of the surface in Downtown. It is 4 to 5 times deeper in other parts of the city. Skyscraper developers generally shied away from building between these two main business districts in part because the deep bedrock would significantly increase building costs.”
Those building foundations are sitting on deep iron reinforced concrete piers. The Ocean water table is rising up to the surface during high tide. The collapsed building was experiencing water a foot high coming into its parking lot. They were burning up pumps trying to keep the water out—to no avail. Concrete does not do well with salt water. As it soaks in, it hits the steel reinforcement, which swells up and cracks the cement. They measured the building dropping down each year. They ignored the problem.
Saltwater should be corrosive enough to an underlying “karst limestone” (as noted by one of our commentators) and any sand above it, to eat away at them to the point that it became a big underground sinkhole without it ever reaching the surface.
Is that limestone under the water table? If it is, what good is it going to do?
Limestone 3-4 feet from surface is the norm in Dade county
Most Freepers think the sand is super deep....it’s not
The water table is not the determining factor
Few structure in coastal America 120 feet high that don’t penetrate the water table in their foundation
But few east of the Rockies have a bedrock this shallow as in SE Florida...
Bear in mind limestone ain’t granite
But this is a side track
Plenty of tall buildings are built into non bedrock foundations with super deep pilings
Like where I’m from in the Deep South clay...100-150 before rock
The issue here is not what sort of foundation host exists
It’s that something was deteriorating and nobody noticed
Could have been steel girders bored onto granite bedrock and if it deteriorates it falls
This was concrete pilings I think poured into limestone and a long pool leak soften the concrete.....I think.....seawater is usually bad for concrete though the Romans made ‘mortar and aggregate structures in water where salt water actually hardened it...
I suppose depends on the mix....maybe crushed shells helps with seawater....
I grew up in a contracting family that built buildings similar to this before we went strictly pipeline and plants
Water and sewer and oil and gas
We set foundations a variety of ways.....usually subbed to the site prep firm
And they always had to deal with water
Surface pumps or wellpoints that look like golf tees
My main message is contrary to popular assumption here....Miami has substantial bedrock which actually is on the surface in places....
I know this having lived there 88-94
I don’t know.
HOA is responsible for inside the wall. The owner is responsible for inside the unit.
The building owners will take a great loss, but that's why insurance companies have another layer of insurance called reinsurance—a "Lloyd's of London" type of business where insurance companies pay for extra insurance in case of massive claims.
As for the condo owners or their heirs, their struggles with their individual policies will be epic, like in many natural disasters. Florida is probably accustomed to massive claims after hurricanes.
I remember Donald Trump saying, in one of his 2015 or '16 campaign speeches, that corruption is a form of taxation.
God, I miss him.
I'm sure there is insurance.
If they carried proper insurance.
They have zero value and owners will have to take their losses.
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