Posted on 06/17/2021 8:24:09 AM PDT by BenLurkin
Shaw Somers, a consultant surgeon who specialises in weight-loss operations, has been treating people with severe obesity for many years. He says people like Sarah, who have an inherited set of certain genes, are much more likely to develop obesity compared with those who don't.
Historically, he says, people with these genetics would have done well in a famine, but with today's plentiful, high-calorie food they will put on weight "without strong determination and support".
Dr Denise Ratcliffe, a clinical psychologist...says that many of the people she sees, have experienced trauma, abuse or neglect, for example, which leads to a dysfunctional relationship with food.
Both the genetic and psychological components of obesity can be amplified when there is easy access to fatty, sugar-laden foods, which are available cheaply and conveniently.
Dr Abd Tahrani, a senior lecturer in obesity medicine at the University of Birmingham, says there are a lot of people who are "biologically pre-designed to conserve energy", which is stored as fat. He explains that signals from the hypothalamus - the part of the brain that controls appetite - bombard the person with feelings of hunger and a desire to eat, that are almost impossible to fight.
For many scientists and doctors who have developed a deep understanding of obesity, the condition is a complex illness driven by a combination of factors. To blame someone for suffering with that illness flies in the face of the scientific evidence, they say.
"If blame worked," says Dr Abd Tahrani, "we would have a very thin society by now. Everybody who has obesity has been blamed an endless amount of times, either by their doctors, by their neighbours or their family, or wider society. It's not working, please stop it."
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...
“Unless you’ve repealed the first law of thermodynamics”
Nope. Doesn’t even come CLOSE to working that way! That law applies to a CLOSED SYSTEM. Period. No human is a closed system. No human absorbs all the calories that enter their mouth. Much goes out the other end. And no human burns calories by actual burning. We convert them into energy, and that is done at varying rates of efficiency. Pima Indians have incredible rates of obesity and diabetes, and it AIN’T based on eating!
Many of us have known people who could eat anything and struggle to maintain weight. I can gain weight breathing deep while near a donut. My sister is in between, although her closest friend in high school had to eat like a horse just to stay above 90 lbs.
All of us are affected by hormones. Those hormones affect how we process food, how efficiently we use energy, etc. You might as well pretend all cars get the same gas mileage.
How we store weight differs too. People who are insulin resistant tend to convert more energy to fat and tend to “lock it up” in a way others do not.
“Adult weight gain and obesity are well-established causal risk factors for the development of type 2 diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disease and obesity-related cancers [1,2,3]. In line with these findings, adult weight gain was strongly associated with increased insulin resistance in multiple studies [4,5,6,7,8,9].
It is well-established that abdominal adiposity, and in particular visceral adipose tissue, is strongly related to insulin resistance and risk of type 2 diabetes mellitus, also after adjustment for total body fat...
As shown in Figure 1, each higher category of change in body weight during adulthood was associated with higher fasting and postprandial glucose and insulin concentrations at middle age, after adjustment for sex, age, BMI at age 20, ethnicity, education, smoking, alcohol consumption, physical activity, and family history of diabetes.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6832997/
NOTE: The problem is they have it backwards. They think weight gain CAUSES the problem when it is the PROBLEM THAT CAUSES THE WEIGHT GAIN! And yes - hallelujah! - there is an approach that gradually deals with the root problem!
I’ve spent most of my life fighting fat, to include running 5 miles a day for most of my adult life. I believed the calories in/out theory and believed all the dieticians who told me a low-fat diet was the way to lose weight. I’ve never been VERY obese with a BMI running from 22-29.(Normal weight = 18.5–24.9 / Overweight = 25–29.9)
Three years ago, I read The Obesity Code. Then read Gary Taubes’ “Good Calories, Bad Calories” and “Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It”. Then “THE BIG FAT SURPRISE
Why Butter, Meat & Cheese Belong in a Healthy Diet” by Nina Teicholz.
When I applied it, it began to work. Not instant weight loss, but three years later my waistline is the best it has ever been. UNLIKE EVERY OTHER DIET I TRIED SINCE 1972, IT WORKED!
If I sound like a zealot, I am! I spent my life fighting, telling myself I just needed to eat less and run more (than 5 miles a day) - and it didn’t work. Now I’ve seen gradual success, after all those years, by changing WHAT I eat, not by counting calories!
Lots of videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/lowcarbdownunder/videos
It's so nice that you can feel superior to everyone else around you. And if you have a fault its that you are too modest.
This isn't a health thread, its a vanity thread so you can let everyone else know how great you are.
Or you could educate yourself about what "willpower" will get you: Biggest Loser Study
10s of millions of people have been able to maintain healthy weight and fitness through the proven methods.
Even amid an abundance of cheap food.
That the “Biggest Losers” were even on the show is proof of of their inability to control themselves and their physical outcomes.
Each of them essentially mentally ill. That they were not able to sustain their gains should be of no surprise to anyone.
The same can be said of those who subscribe to your powerlessness philosophy. After all, it’s not their fault.
I’m glad you found something that worked for you. I agree exercise is a red herring. “Low fat” diet wasn’t one of dietary experts better moments. It coincided with double digit monetary inflation rates and subsequent interest rates, right when Milk, and dairy products like butter and cheese got really expensive for families. They also pushed hydrogenated industrial fats as “healthier” than butter, and “eggs have high cholesterol”.
Whatever your basal metabolic rate is, that’s how many calories it takes to “keep the lights on”. If you eat less than that, over time you will burn fat. If you eat more than that, you will tend to gain weight. It really is that simple. It is true that certain ethnic backgrounds are prone to Metabolic syndrome, and eventually Type 2 Diabetes.
“It is well-established that abdominal adiposity, and in particular visceral adipose tissue, is strongly related to insulin resistance and risk of type 2 diabetes mellitus, also after adjustment for total body fat...”
This is true. They don’t have it “backwards” though. I’m not sure where you’re getting that. The problem is with excess glucose in particular, the pancreas starts releasing more and more insulin and it has less and less of an effect. Excess carbohydrate is the classic way to do this. Metabolic syndrome. It will progress to Type 2 Diabetes. Insulin resistance is caused by excess carbs, is my understanding.
Type 2 is reversible, by losing the fat. Imtermittent fasting has many of the same benefits as exercise does, it gives the body a metabolic workout.
So long as there is glucose in the muscles, liver, or bloodstream, no fat burning can occur. If insulin is present, no fat burning can occur. That’s why intermittent fasting is so effective, it mimics the way humans used to operate. People who eat 3 meals a day, with snacks in between, and a late night snack, they never get a chance to enter the “fed state”, where insulin levels are low.
This is why low carb diets are more effective, but it is still a fact that one way or another, some sort of net calorie deficit has to occur in order to lose weight. We don’t llive on air. For me, one meal a day is ideal. It might take the form of an entire pizza, or maybe a large sausage and cheese omelet, hamburger casserole, chili mac, beans and rice, meatloaf and mashed potatos. Large, satisfying meals. Life is too short to eat food we don’t like.
I eat anything I want, just not as much of it as I’d like. Carbs are risky in large amounts because they tend to stimulate the appetite - for more carbs - and lead to overeating or binging. I’m down 60 pounds. I could use to lose a few more “vanity” pounds but already meet the long published height/weight chart standard. N.b. I didn’t exercise to get there, other than ordinary day to day chores and activities. This is not optimal but it’s clear to me exercise isn’t really a big factor.
Or put another way, I need to gain more muscle when I lose the little remaining fat. The BMI is defective in that muscle weighs more than fat, and skews the results. It’s important to get plenty of high quality protein, eggs are particularly great for this. USDA used to classify eggs in the meat category.
What I’m getfing at, is people who were judged medically overweight or obese before puberty, they have a real problem fhroughout life. Stats are not good for them. Those of us who put on the poundage as adults can control it. But, the individual has to want to lose the weight. It does take a stubborn determination, and a lifelong committment to staying healthy.
“I think calories that are not part of an excess might be stored as fat.”
Well that’s just it, if the body is truly in a calorie deficit, there isn’t any excess, by definition. If it somehow gets stored as fat, it’s comin right back out again for energy. Here’s why.
A certain number of calories are required just to “keep the lights on”. Just to keep your heart functioning, maintain temperature, etc. About 10% of the calories we take in are used up to actually digest our food too. I thought that was interesting. In Males this basal metabolic rate need might be 1600 to 1800 calories.
If the hypothetical male takes in 1000 calories, he is now down 600 calories for the day. Soon the glucose will be used up in the blood, muscles, and liver. In this scenario leave out any extra calories needed to offset exercise or work.
There won’t be any fat stored going forward, if he keeps that up. Any carbs in fhe meals eaten are immediately available for energy, but if we’re taking in 1000 cals, and our daily requirement is 1800 ... we’re coming up short anyway you slice it. This forces the body to turn to fat stores, and this is uncomfortable without practice. Most people don’t have practice. It’s just like a muscle that has become atrophied with disuse.
It most definitely isn’t linear, but if you figure out your personal metabolic rate, you can dial it in pretty close. Fats are 4000 calories a pound. Losing 1.5 to maybe 2.0 a week or so is sustainable over time. But for most people cutting back to 600 - 800 calories say, a more rapid weight loss diet, is pretty brutal at first.
The problem is once they get into that state they have damaged their body to the point that it takes an enormous amount of willpower all the time not to regain that weight. Far more than you realize or are capable of long term because it only gets worse over time.
You can sit in judgment of them all you want because it makes you feel good about yourself but that is just a different kind of character failure than their gluttony and sloth you love to point out.
Many of those people have had a doctor hectoring them for years about their weight while simultaneously throwing the food pyramid at them. Once they understand the dumb thing is upside down they can lose the weight.
The problem with playing drill sergeant with them is that their body is broken and “diet and exercise” not only doesn’t work long term, it makes the problem worse. They are at the very least insulin resistant if not diabetic. Their hormones that signal hunger and satiety are scrambled, making them feel hunger continuously, no matter how much they eat or don’t eat.
The excess weight goes from being the cause to being a symptom of another problem it initially caused. Simply demanding that they lose the weight is treating the symptom while making the problem worse.
“Far more than you realize or are capable of long term because it only gets worse over time.”
10s of millions in the US alone are able to maintain healthy weight, and FITNESS through the proven methods of diet and exercise.
They adjust their inputs to achieve their desired output.
It’s friggin’ binary and excruciatingly simple.
There is no magic, no voodoo involved. Those who fail do not have a secret, alien metabolism.
Metabolism is purely a function of muscle mass. The more muscle mass you have, the higher your resting metabolism.
It a linear and direct correlation.
The “Biggest Losers” in the article had a drop in their basal metabolism because they let their muscle mass atrophy. A direct product of sloth.
The essential problem with the obese is they won’t do the work. They’ll bitch about how it’s impossible to sustain diet and exercise...while never having tried to sustain it.
Like you they develop a philosophy of defeat, then pursue it.
It goes like this: My metabolism is special which makes it too hard to achieve weight loss and fitness. It’s unfair that others judge me for this, because it’s not my fault.
I give up.
You should bother to read the actual research. They were exercising the crap out of those people but you can’t build muscle or increase your metabolism when you’re starving.
Well that’s just it, if the body is truly in a calorie deficit, there isn’t any excess, by definition. If it somehow gets stored as fat, it’s comin right back out again for energy. Here’s why.
A certain number of calories are required just to “keep the lights on”. Just to keep your heart functioning, maintain temperature, etc.
When fats move to the bloodstream, toxins stored in the fat move with it. It takes energy to process those toxins, and you might need more energy to process them than what the fat moving to the blood provides.
“They were exercising the crap out of those people but you can’t build muscle or increase your metabolism when you’re starving.”
That would be irresponsible behavior too.
The key to success is a daily 200-300 calorie deficit in a protein centric, balanced and nutritious diet.
And that means elimination of fast food, packaged food and sugar.
And of course, the requisite exercise, both resistance and aerobic.
2,000 calories is a LOT of eating when it comes to whole foods.
A pound of fat is about 4,000 calories and a person should target of loss of 1-3 pounds per month initially as they bring up their basal metabolic rate (muscle mass).
As their basal rate goes up they must increase how much they eat to keep from doing themselves harm. And as their bodies increase the ability to burn their fat, the calorie deficit can go up a little. But not much.
People spend 40-50 years building up their fat load, but get impatient at even the thought of spending 1-5 years dropping it. So they try to drop 40lbs in 3 months, harming themselves.
Another sign of mental illness.
Intermittent Fasting has been shown to raise HGH levels in the body.
That metabolism slows with age is a truism.
From what I’ve read and heard from health sources (and I have a lot of those, since, by now, I have a lot of doctors; I’m a bit of a professional patient), part of that has to do with muscle mass, part with less activity, but a huge part with the aging of metabolic processes. It comes as our body starts to wear out.
I eat less than I did when I was 6 or 8. At 8, I could easily eat a 1 lb. steak, or two large breasts of chicken, or half my Halloween candy in one sitting. Now, I typically eat 18 oz. of home-cooked meat PER WEEK, and past an occasional bite of chocolate or something, just don’t eat sweets much anymore. And I exercise more than ever (which was nearly 0 for decades).
But, I’m disabled, and that limits my activities, it’s true. Also, I take medications that are modestly encouraging of weight gain.
I struggle a whole bunch with losing and keeping weight off. Been at it since I got sick, 6+ years.
I’ve achieved modest success, but it’s a grave insult to suggest that it isn’t through herculean struggle. I have muted criticism for the beached whale types, but not a lot for someone with a BMI in the low 30s.
“Another sign of mental illness.”
Stay positive. Don’t insult.
Don’t get so high and might!
Encourage any effort on diet or exercise. And assure people that even if they don’t achieve a waist size of 32 (or 34, or 36 or more), something is better than nothing. Also, encourage better diets - real food vs. crap, nutritious, balanced meals prepared at home, where you sit down and take the time to eat a proper meal. For folks not exercising, encourage they start with 10 minutes. Even 5! After I got home from the hospital, my doctor gave me strict orders no more than 10 minutes per day, a few das a week.
“Encourage any effort on diet or exercise. “
I do so consistently and regularly.
But I refuse to enable the delusion that people are helpless in this matter.
Sure, like you many are burdened with issues that make it harder.
Not impossible.
10s of millions in this country of abundance do it every day.
Well, OK. I think that’s getting off into the weeds a bit.
The latest information I found indicates that those over 40 have an average basal metabolic rate need of 1200 calories. The 1600 to 1800 calorie figure often cited for males applies to young, healthy active males.
My point is that this is just not very much food, and even these figures are simply an average. Some people will need even fewer calories, and even coupled with the number of extra calories over and above the BMR to function, it just isn’t more than a single solid meal.
“It goes like this: My metabolism is special which makes it too hard to achieve weight loss and fitness. It’s unfair that others judge me for this, because it’s not my fault.”
I agree there are people who “wear” the cloak of this, so to speak. There are people born who a far more prone to obesity starting before puberty. That is who the article above references.
Appropos of nothing - I got to thinking today, Hummingbirds can practically live on a diet of sugar water. Ever seen a fat hummingbird? Me neither! They always look pretty fit and trim.
You know who has a good weight loss program? It’s better than Jenny Craig or Weightwatchers I betcha. And they pay you to boot! The US Army.
They do enforce the dietary restrictions. I’ll never forget the time about 5 Drill Sergeants appeared in the chow hall one day and zeroed in on a fat guy who had made a poor choice of a snuck a piece of pie in a cargo pocket or something like that. How they knew or found out or whatever, I dunno. Well he earned it, because they smoked his ass pretty good. Yes,, all this is “cruel” critica say. Some say. Spare me.
The guy was well fit and trim by the end of AIT, and very proud they had to issue a complete new set of uniforms.
Harder for some, achievable for all.
Great!
You’re not “enabl[ing] delusions” by holding the insults.
You’re just expressing your own frustrations. It’s not “mental illness” for someone like me to get to the point where you think weight loss is impossible, and you give up hope.
That’s not a delusion. That’s despair.
I’ve had to come to accept that for the rest of my life, in order to achieve and maintain a healthier weight, I will be miserable.
Oh well. A lot of less-than-pleasant-stuff has happened to me in the last years. Misery doesn’t seem too bad.
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