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To: palmer
Part of being objective is avoiding emotional arguments like one death is too many.

Its not so much being emotional, other than noting that many of the people potentially getting harmed by this experimental concoction had a nearly nil chance of being taken out by the CoVid (particularly if the CDC/Government had allowed the use of HCQ and Ivermectin) - so yes, one is too many.
The number you posited are fair - sure, if you have a disease killing 25+% of those infected, then yes - it is worth taking the risk.
But I agree - let everyone make their decision. I just wish that we had data that we could all trust to base our decisions.

22 posted on 06/10/2021 6:56:48 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: El Cid
many of the people potentially getting harmed by this experimental concoction had a nearly nil chance of being taken out by the CoVid

Ivermectin does have a very long record for safety. But for COVID patients it is clearly an experimental concoction and has a small benefit in studies like this: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389/

23 posted on 06/10/2021 7:04:12 PM PDT by palmer (Democracy Dies Six Ways from Sunday)
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To: El Cid; palmer
There is plenty of data, even if it's qualified, to make an informed decision.

Let's state up-front, "cases" in terms of this this field usually are not just a positive test BUT with symptoms. With COVID19 we only had a positive test. That's big for horizontal comparisons.

In addition, about 94% of all fatalities with COVID19 on the death certificate have comorbidities. Now, that's not unusual for comorbidities to be present. But there was a financial incentive to put down COVID19 as The cause. So we got that issue.

I posted the CDC case and fatality data by age and we see a 1.79% case fatality rate across all people (or people with a positive test result survive 98.21% of the time), with the fatalities per 100,000 people basically tripling by age bracket after 17. Anyone over 64 has a higher than average chance of dying if they get this bug, but everyone under 65 has a 99.59% of survival if they get the bug.

Moderna...they had about 14,000 test subjects and 14,000 placebo subjects. During Nov 2020, 14 days after the second vaccine 5 of the vaxxed subjects had COVID19 vs 90 in the placebo group. But 96% of the vaxxed group felt terrible after the second vaccine, which could have led to self-sequestration/staying home (vs 56% in the placebo) and impacted the infection rate. And none of the 28,000 subjects died of COVID19...after a few weeks of observation...that's part of why the vaccine was released under an Emergency Use Authorization approval because the FDA usually waits for a 2-3 year observation period.

I think that is PLENTY of data and facts for a normal person to make an informed decision about getting vaccinated and whether or not the past 16 months was worth it.

34 posted on 06/10/2021 8:39:11 PM PDT by DoodleBob (Gravity's waiting period is about 9.8 m/s^2)
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