Posted on 12/13/2020 2:55:50 PM PST by Jan_Sobieski
Fascism is most often described by leftist ideologues and talking heads as a philosophy attributed uniquely to the right of the political spectrum. They tend to claim that the inherent authoritarianism present in fascism is a foundational characteristic of mainstream right-wing thought. Not only is this misconception incorrect, but it’s dangerous; the inability to distinguish distinctive ideologies could lead to situations where true warning signs are missed.
Many attribute the rise of fascism to Italy’s Mussolini. However, few know the name of the man Mussolini regarded as the father of fascism— Giovanni Gentile. Gentile was an Italian philosopher who was influenced by Giuseppe Mazzini, a politician and member of the Action Party, a left-wing party that strongly advocated for the establishment of large supranational organizations such as the EU. Gentile also drew influences from other prominent leftist philosophers, among them Karl Marx (as seen in his essay The Philosophy of Marx) and Georg Hegel (as seen in their respective descriptions of the role of the state in Hegel’s Elements of the Philosophy of Right and Gentile’s Manifesto of the Fascist Intellectuals).
(Excerpt) Read more at loneconservative.com ...
National Socialist German Worker party was founded as anti-bourgeois, anti-business, nationalist party. Anti-semitic, the attack on Jews were originally aimed on rich Jews, and anti-communist, militaristic.
Originally very socialist (Especially Rohm) it mellowed it socialistic positions, especially after the Night of Long Knives, which basically eliminated the most socialistics fraction. Apparently lot of founders considered Hitler to be a sellout, abandoning some socialistic ideas for the capitalistic money. However it never gave up the socialistic ideas of managed economy, free healthcare, massive public works.
Nazi’s run totalitarian regime, violently oppressive and antisemitic. But their economic model was socialistic, very much Bernie Sanders type. Of course they were anti communist, but that was common with most socialistic parties in the time. Bernie is also not a communist, at least verbally.
National Review run an article about in 2016 about the irony of Bernie Sanders, whose family perished in holocaust, being the National socialist in US politics, and yes Bernie’s socialistic economic ideas are pretty much aligned with Nazi ideas.
Communist China is about as fascist as you can get.
“Communism is class-based.
Fascism is Race based.”
Not exactly. German Nazism was race obsessed. Fascist Italy wasn’t. They were allies of convenience, as was Imperial Japan, the third leg of that triad.
communism, socialism, fascism....they are all the same....the rich and powerful want total control over its subjects and will reward their party people while others dig in the mines.....oldest story on earth..
“The Nazi’s, or National Socialists , are clearly on the left side in this definition. The left does not like having Nazi’s on their side so they lie about it.”
That wasn’t the opinion of anyone alive in the 1930s. There wasn’t any party of the Left that Nazism had its roots in, or which regarded Nazism as any sort of cousin.
Nazism was sui generis, having borrowed its name from a regional Austrian political party. It’s “socialism” had little meaning and certainly nothing like the German Marxist parties that it constantly fought in street wars.
The Left can reasonably object to having Nazism dumped on them because it’s nonsense that has become popular in recent years among people too young and too ill read in history to know what they are talking about. Nazism was a criminal war machine concocted out of a grab bag of German mysticism, eugenics, paganism, the occult, and revenge for the defeat of 1918.
No. It is left wing I.e. NAZI Germany.
“Agreed...but evolution never gained ground in America until the Scopes Monkey Trial”
Evolution was affecting American thought as early as the 1880s with the rise of the eugenics movement. A good 40 years before the Scopes trial, which the good people of Dayton Tennessee may well have ginned up in order to get some publicity for their town.
“Nazi’s run totalitarian regime, violently oppressive and antisemitic. But their economic model was socialistic, very much Bernie Sanders type. “
Hitler in fact sold off some state-owned industries to the private sector. That’s closer to what a libertarian would advocate rather than a socialist. Hitler of course was neither, having no fixed economic ideas at all. He was quite content for private business to remain private as long as they served the war machine that was his main focus for most of the existence of the Nazi regime.
Actually he did have a lot of economic ideas.
Remember, he had to originally run in free elections. Promising WW II and Auschwitz were not exactly winning electoral issues even in 1930 Germany!
He skillfully used the great depression to gain power promising to save German people from the evils of capitalism, evil Jews (meant originally mainly the rich Jews), evil treaties and all kind of evil persecutors of German people (victimology).
He originally run on mostly on economic issues, before he took over. His economic issues were
1) Massive government investments - like building freeways, spending on military. The war machine was sold originally a social program to get unemployed people jobs.
2) Expropriation of the rich. Jews especially were all expropriated, but even foreign investments e.g GM of Germany and many more. Basically anybody who did not support him was expropriated. Sometimes the expropriated businesses were resold, I guess that’s what you referring to.
3) Government social programs to help the poor Germans. E. G. Hitler run a lot of soup kitchens.
4) Government (Nazi) managed economy. He was quite content for private business to remain private, as long as they did exactly what he ordered him to do. Which in practice meant they were not really private.
He implemented lot of his economic programs before the war stated, eventually, as the war progressed, the economy took a dive. Eventually all Germans end up in military and the economy became slave work based. He forcefully drafted people from all occupied countries for forced labor.
Hitler is, rightfully, mainly criticized for the killings, gas chambers and WWII atrocities, but if you just for a moment, mentally disregard these, something like a Bernie emmerges. Charismatic Socialist.
In summary, Hitler run a welfare state, where the welfare benefits were limited to “good, racially pure” Germans.
That was actually the main difference from Communists who in general were internationalists and wanted global welfare state.
Fascism in Italy was always race based, but yes, they were ‘softer’ in that regard - having had an empire - and not not eugenics-based like the Nazis.
The German welfare state was begun by Bismarck in the 1880s. It was known as State Socialism and it preserved the basic social order and government. It is regarded as a conservative ideology unlike revolutionary Marxist socialism of the political Left. In fact it was a conscious attempt by Bismarck to thwart Marxism from taking root in Germany.
Nazi economic policy had its roots in Bismarck, not Marx. It wasn’t any more leftwing than Bismarck was.
“Fascism in Italy was always race based,”
Well that’s not true at all.
Mussolini and Fascism came to power in 1922. Italian race laws arrived sixteen years later along with Italy’s Pact of Steel alliance with Nazi Germany.
William Shirer wrote that Mussolini appeased Hitler to win his support. That prior to the 1938 pact Fascists had been very critical of Germany’s racism. Many early Italian Fascists had in fact been Jews.
Fascism is really a tactic.
People on the right want less government control while people on the left want more government control.
Fascism is the merging of State and Corporate Powers.
Fascism is to the Left of Capitalism because it’s about more. control
Yes are all lied to about Fascism and Nazis being right wing. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Leftists say this because the Left are embarrassed by them durning the second World War. Plus they need a bogeyman.
After all calling someone a Capitalist or a Libertarian is not scary.
Well that’s not true at all.
Mussolini and Fascism came to power in 1922. Italian race laws arrived sixteen years later along with Italy’s Pact of Steel alliance with Nazi Germany.
William Shirer wrote that Mussolini appeased Hitler to win his support. That prior to the 1938 pact Fascists had been very critical of Germany’s racism. Many early Italian Fascists had in fact been Jews.
But Bismarck did not commanded the economy, did not expropriate businesses and did not build freeways. And I am not sure that Bismarck was conservative. Implementing state socialisms, competing with Marxismus, that’s not really that conservative.
He was kind of Hitler melow precursor, national socialist.
Militaristic, nationalistic, expansionistic, power trumps rights.
Basically you again mixing European and American conservatives. In Europe conservatives are nationalistic, protectionistic, often apt to regulate. In the US conservatives are free market financial conservatives.
Did you know that in Wilhelmine\Bismarkian Germany the voting franchise was more extensive then in the UK?
“And I am not sure that Bismarck was conservative.”
He was a “powerful central government” nationalist. The same as his contemporaries Lincoln and Garibaldi.
Bismarck was a great admirer of Lincoln. But then so was Karl Marx, who wrote for the Whig-GOP newspaper of record, Horace Greeley’s New York Tribune. It’s a fool’s errand to impose today’s political divisions on the past, despite the popularity of doing so.
“In Europe conservatives are nationalistic, protectionistic, often apt to regulate.”
A nice description of the first 50 years of GOP rule from Lincoln through Teddy Roosevelt. The party that made nationalism supreme and buried the doctrine of state’s rights. The party whose platform included the Morrill and other explicitly protective tariffs. The majority Republican 49th Congress which passed the law creating the first regulatory body, the Interstate Commerce Commission.
The quote is from Nina Schenk Gräfin von Stauffenberg who died in 2006. She was the wife of Claus von Stauffenberg, one of the lead conspirators in the attempt to assassinate Hitler and overthrow the Nazi regime. She said of her husband:
"Conservatives were convinced that he was a ferocious Nazi, and ferocious Nazis were convinced he was an unreconstructed conservative. He was neither."
I know American and European definitions of "conservative," are somewhat at variance, nonetheless, it seems to me a very, very curious quote to counterpoise the terms, "Nazi," and, "conservative," unless she, and her intended audience would have understood the two to be quite opposite in nature.
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