Posted on 08/03/2020 10:43:16 PM PDT by Olog-hai
Saturday’s huge demo in Berlin against Germany’s coronavirus measures has raked up a new debate about the boundaries between the right to assemble and the protection of public health.
Inevitably, given that the organizers of the “Day of Freedom” were arguing that the German government was wilfully overestimating the threat of the coronavirus, most of the 17,000–20,000 protesters made no attempt to wear face masks or stick to social distancing guidelines.
That was why the Berlin police eventually disbanded the main demo, as it did many of the counter-demos also staged on Saturday. All in all, Saturday’s various protests were largely peaceful, even though, according to police, isolated incidents did result in injuries to some 45 officers during the day.
By Monday, several German politicians had taken to their favored media outlets to condemn the demonstrators. Federal Justice Minister Christine Lambrecht told the Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper that she “lacked all understanding” for those who thought themselves above the social distancing guidelines, though she was quick to add that the right to assembly was “an especially valuable legal right.” […]
Paulina Starski, a senior research fellow at the Max Planck Institute for Comparative Public Law and International Law in Heidelberg, explained that the authorities can only shut down demonstrations if there’s a direct danger to public security — which can include a threat to the constitutional rights of others or the legal order itself. […]
… Starski added there is certainly a danger that authorities could use coronavirus prevention measures to curtail constitutional freedoms. “Absolutely,” she said. “The new rules during the hard lockdown led to a situation where the freedom of assembly was to a large extent de facto suspended — but subsequent court decisions allowing demonstrations have redressed that balance since then.” …
(Excerpt) Read more at dw.com ...
had a thought today- just when are the mask nazis gonna declare ‘all clear’ here in the US, and stop harassing people for not wearing masks, or mandating that they wear them?
When exactly will the ‘all clear’ signal be given? Because right now, in many counties across the states, there is hardly any covid, but people are still forced to wear masks, or screamed at and assaulted if they don’t-
When will the stinkin madness subside?
Their ‘problem’ is that the German Constitution is written to guarantee freedom of assembly (freedom to protest). The added verbiage is that you have to announce the protest to the police, select a location or limit the protest not to obstruct emergency vehicles, and not involve violence into the episode. So they’d have to revisit rewriting the Constitution and add a clause only over Covid-19. It’s not impossible but would require all sixteen states to agree to this.
If you asked me right now, within Germany...how many Germans were anti-ban or anti-regulation, I’d put the figure near 10 to 15 percent, and likely to hit 20 percent by Oct/Nov. A lot of termination notices will occur in the last quarter of the year, and bring more people to the frustration level.
[[The added verbiage is that you have to announce the protest to the police, select a location or limit the protest not to obstruct emergency vehicles, and not involve violence into the episode.]]
Sounds like something we should have here- more and more protestors block entire streets- even highways- and the police are told to ‘stand down’ when confronting the criminals
That’s the text of the Basic Law’s Article Eight. Sounds self-nullifying to me. All the government would have to do is write any law that suits them, since there is no “negative liberty” format that gets in the way.
- All Germans shall have the right to assemble peacefully and unarmed without prior notification or permission.
- In the case of outdoor assemblies, this right may be restricted by or pursuant to a law.
There is no right to riot in the Constitution. The First Amendment guarantees (by the “negative liberty” format that Obama despises) that no law will ever restrict “the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances”.
Rioting is open rebellion, and that’s covered in the Constitution under the Suspension Clause (Article 1, section 9, clause 2) and the Guarantee Clause (Article 4, section 4).
By what I said before, I mean that we do not need or want anything like Germany’s Article Eight, or any of its Basic Law. Rioting is already covered in the Constitution, and by federal laws such as the Insurrection Act and Anti-Rioting Act.
Frankly, the Basic Law is too much like the USSR’s constitution; that is something we never should have permitted, but the lefties in DC were running the show even then (and it’s how the UN Charter ended up looking so much like the USSR constitution too).
the only part I’m talking about is the following
limit the protest not to obstruct emergency vehicles, and not involve violence
ie not to obstruct vehicles- period- too many protests are turning into events that severely affect ordinary citizen’s ability to live peacefully and get to and from work etc-
That’s all I’m talking about- not suggesting we adopt german law system-
This would all be challenged in court and head off to the Federal Court of Justice.
The problem I see...the real downfall of the economy will occur in the last quarter of 2020, with a fair number of terminations to occur and bankruptcies of business operations to be common. First quarter of 2021 promises to be an exceptionally bad period, with anti-ban folks in massive numbers. Add to it....fall of 2021 is the next national election, and you really don’t need 25-percent of the public charged up and going to some new anti-Corona agenda.
state broadcast Deutsche Welle are liars. “17,000–20,000 protesters”? more like 1.3 million:
this video needs to go viral. “End the pandemic - Freedom Day” protest. camera pans 360 degrees. impossible to see how far the crowd extends in any direction - beyond the monuments in the street - north and south - or through the trees - left and right. FakeNewsMSM has lied about this protest. spread the link to the video:
Youtube: 01.08.2020 Berlin - Tag der Freiheit Live - 1,3 Millionen Menschen UNGLAUBLICH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htDrDieOgh0&feature=youtu.be
the following was the only website to mention the organizers claim of 1.3 million. I posted it on threads yesterday. today it gets 404 Error. it’s disappeared:
1 Aug: TV6: Thousands of protests were held in Berlin against epidemiological restrictions
German police have disbanded Saturday’s protest against restrictions imposed in Berlin on the coronavirus epidemic, the MTI writes. Police justified the action on the grounds that the organizers of the demonstration did not ensure compliance with health regulations.
Authorities say a crowd of 20,000 marched through the city center to the Brandenburg Gate, ***but organizers estimate that 1.3 million protesters took part in the movement...
https://tv6.news/thousands-of-protests-were-held-in-berlin-against-epidemiological-restrictions/
a short clip showing the crowd - a bit fuzzy:
Youtube: 3m15s: Diese Bilder werden euch die Merkel “Medien” nicht zeigen - Tag der Freiheit in Berlin!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICaW2EqsIig
what makes the lies of the FakeNewsMSM worse is they ALL have bureaus in Berlin. THEY KNOW THEY ARE LYING.
German News Agency DPA finally includes the 1.3 million claim, surrounded by total hypocrisy compared to MSM reaction to BLM protests:
1 Aug: HeraldMailMedia: Berlin police break up rally as 20,000 protest virus restrictions
By DPA (Deutsche Presse-Agentur)
The police said some 17,000 people had taken part in an initial march through the city center, ending at the city’s landmark Brandenburg Gate.
The organizers of the events said 1.3 million people had attended...
The police tweeted that a criminal complaint has been filed against the organizers for failing to comply with the regulations.
Few of the attendees wore masks or observed social distancing guidelines, police said...
Counterdemonstrators also gathered on Saturday, many under the banner “Grandmas against the right,” and shouted “Nazis out” at those taking part in the main protest...
In Stuttgart, the same group has repeatedly demonstrated against the restrictions imposed by the German government to contain the coronavirus and in support of the protection of fundamental rights...
People nationwide were mobilized for the Berlin rally, Berlin Senator Andreas Geisel told RBB radio on Friday evening, noting that neo-Nazi organizations had also called for participation.
Lawmakers across the political landscape responded to Saturday’s events with anger and dismay...
Saskia Esken, co-chair of the center-left Social Democrats, had stronger words. “Thousands of #Covidiots are creating a second wave in Berlin, without distancing or masks,” she tweeted...
Further events are planned during the weekend...
The death toll has reached 9,148, up seven on the day before...
The new case numbers show the highest daily increase since May, aside from a local outbreak at a slaughterhouse in mid-June...
1 COMMENT ONLY:
It was 1.3 million protesters. Not thousands or 20k!
https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news/nation/berlin-police-break-up-rally-as-20-000-protest-virus-restrictions/article_3e36c408-b8ea-56b5-bc0c-b194229b12ce.html
from DPA article: “Saskia Esken, co-chair of the center-left Social Democrats”. here she is on Antifa:
3 June: Deutsche Welle: Trump’s ‘antifa’ accusations spark debate in Germany, the movement’s birthplace
After Donald Trump claimed most protesters in the US were “antifa,” Germany’s Social Democrats rushed to declare solidarity with the movement. But which movement? And why did other politicians object?
by Mark Hallam
Leading Social Democrat Saskia Esken set the ball rolling, responding to the threat from Trump by describing herself in a short tweet as: “58 and Antifa. Obviously.” One of the SPD’s accounts responded to Esken with a nod to the party’s age, writing: “157 and Antifa. Obviously.”
While several others in the SPD followed this online template, politicians of other stripes criticized Esken sharply.
Paul Ziemiak, general secretary of the CDU, highlighted the more contentious side of antifa in his response: “Against fascism, and for democracy and human rights. Without violence. Obviously, for me. It’s sad that the chairwoman of the SPD lacks the strength to differentiate.”...
Esken’s later response to the ensuing criticism brought the debate neatly full circle. “Antifa is not an organization. Anti-fascism is a point of view which all democrats should obviously support.”...
https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-antifa-accusations-spark-debate-in-germany-the-movements-birthplace/a-53665573
I’d like to know this as well. I stopped in Target on the way to work to get an over the counter medication and on my way out from the self checkout some random lady tells me “mask over the nose too.” I turned around and yelled that I have COPD and my doctor has told me not to put it over my nose not that it’s any of your business especially as I did not stand near you Karen. Its all so dam depressing anymore.
All of the video that Deutsche Welle uses...comes from ARD/ZDF (the public TV group).
So I will say this...if you took the overhead image early in the protest day, I’d say it was near 10k to 15k. At maximum peak, it’s probably up toward 60k. It’s nowhere near a million. But you notice other odd thing of the day...about 3k to 4k ‘other’ protesters were over on the SE part of town at some bar which was supposed to be shut down by the cops for violation of Corona ban-rules. That bar episode turned a bit physical.
What’s pointed out about the bar episode is that this crowd was made up of leftists, rightists, and ‘hippies’...all from that neighborhood and showing up in support of the bar itself. I think this worried the news media, in that their theme or message of this being strictly far-right-wing....won’t work if you have hippies involved (you can’t mask hippies as Nazis for example).
clearly you haven’t watched the first five minutes of the long video in comment #10.
there could easily be 1 million.
I’ve seen video of the 1997 Berlin Love Parade which ran around 1 to 1.25 million participants (both cops and participants agreed on that number), and it’s just nowhere near that number. I wouldn’t even go to the half-million point.
Part of this story is that the location of the protest requires you to use the railway and city mass transit system, so with cameras and looking at the full nature of the subway system, you can assess the count against the Monday-through-Friday normal 1.5 million who transit the city to reach work.
Rumor has it that a early September anti-ban protest will occur....with or without city permission. That might turn into a more curious episode, if protest crowds are forbidden and the numbers double.
The underlings are making noise huh? I guess the state must crack down on the uppity citizens. Make them know their place!
Well, at least they have a “conversation” about it. There was none here except calls for convo with antifa/BLM to take down monuments.
It’s in their genes
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