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Speech of Gen. Davis, of Mississippi, in Support of his Territorial Resolutions (5/8/1860)
New York Times archives - Times Machine ^ | 5/8/1860

Posted on 05/08/2020 6:40:26 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

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To: BroJoeK
Now if you will notice, please, the point of this discussion is the May 7, 1860 Senate floor speech of Mississippi Senator Jefferson Davis where he asserts that states are sovereign but Federal government is not.

So you have corrected young Senator Davis by reminding us that neither state nor Federal governments are "sovereign" but both have only such powers as "we the people" may grant them.

Please note that I responded not to the thread article, but to your post which inaccurately claimed "That's a false dichotomy -- in fact our Founders intended a blend allowing as much sovereignty to states as possible, while assuming only as much national leadership as necessary." I quoted that and underlined Founders for emphasis. The Founders of 1776 led directly to the Articles of Confederation which declared that each state retained its sovereignty and independence, and the Articles declared only a league of friendship. The Framers directly produced the Constitution. Prior the the Articles, Vermont seceded and became an independent state by successful revolution, as later confirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court. The constitutional government took effect after ratification by eleven (11) states, and George Washington was elected with ten (10) states participating in the vote. North Carolina remained outside the new union for about six months; Rhode Island for more than a year. New York did not participate in the election of George Washington.

The government of a State is distinct from the people of a State who form its political community. In this political sense, the people are the State and the State is the people of the State, or citizens of the State; the State is a juridical personality or moral person, analagous to a corporate person in the law. This political group performs acts of sovereignty, indirectly through their chosen delegates, doing such things as ratifying amendments or constitutions. In this restricted political sense, the collective people of a State are the State, and the State is a sovereign. The government of the State is just a creation of the people.

The actual purpose of the speech was to support his introduction of a set of resolutions.

Thirty-Sixth Congress, 1st Session.

May 7, 1860

. . .

[1937]

RELATIONS OF TIIE STATES.

The PRESIDING OFFICER, (Mr. Foot in the chair.) If there be no further petitions or re­ports from committees, the hour for the consider­ation of the special order being near, the Chair will take it to be the sense of the Senate to pro­ceed to the consideration of that order at the pres­ent time.

The following resolutions are now before the Senate as the special order of the day, on which the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. Davis] is en­titled to the floor:

1. Resolved, That, in the adoption of the Federal Consti­tution, the States adopting the same acied severally as free ami independent sovereignties, delegating a portion of then powers to be exercised by tbo Federal Government tor the iIncreased security of each against dangers, domestic as well as foreign ; and that any intermeddling by any one or more States, or by a combination of their citizens, with the do­mestic institutions Of the others, on any pretext whatever, political, moral, or religious, with .a view to their disturb­ance or subversion, is in violation of the Constitution, in suiting to the States so interfered with, endangers their domestic peace and tranquillity—objects for which the Constitution was formed—and, by necessary consequence, tends to weaken and destroy the Union itself.

2. Resolved, That negro slavery, as it exists in fifteen States of this Union, composes an important portion of their domestic institutions, inherited from their ancestors, and existing at the adoption of the Constitution, by which it is recognized as constituting an important element in the apportionment of powers among the States; and that no change of opinion or feeling on the part of the non-slave­holding States of the Union, in relation to this institution, can justify them, or their citizens, in open or covert attacks thereon, with a view to its overthrow; and that all such attacks are in manifest violation of the mutual and solemn pledge to protect and defend each other, given by the States respectively on entering into the constitutional compact which formed the Union, and arc a manifest breach of faith, and a violation of the most solemn obligations.

3. Resolved, That the Union of these States rests on the equality of rights and privileges among its members; and that it is especially the duty of the Senate, which repre­sents the States in their sovereign capacity, to resist all attempts to discriminate either in relation to persons or property in the Territories, which are the common posses­sions of the United States, so as to give advantages to the citizens of one State which are not equally assured to those of every other State.

4. Resolved, That neither Congress nor a Territorial Legislature, whether by direct legislation or legislation of an indirect and unfriendly character, possess power to annul or impair the constitutional right of any citizen of the United States to take his slave property into the common Territories, and there hold and enjoy the same while the terri­torial condition remains.

5. Resolved, That if experience should at any time prove that the judicial and executive authority do not possess means to insure adequate protection to constitutional rights in a Territory, and if the territorial government should tail or refuse to provide the necessary remedies for that pur­pose, it will be the duty of Congress to supply such defi­ciency.

6. Resolved, That, the inhabitants of a Territory of the United States, when they rightfully form a constitution to be admitted as a State into the Union, may then, for the first time, like the people of a State when forming a new constitution, decide for themselves whether slavery, as a domestic institution, shall be maintained or prohibited within their jurisdiction; and “they shall be received into the Union with or without slavery, as their constitution may prescribe at the time of their admission.”

7. Resolved, That the provision of the Constitution for the rendition of fugitives from service or labor, without the adoption of which the Union could not have been formed, and that the laws of 1793 and 1830, which were enacted to secure its execution, and the main features of which, being similar, bear the impress of nearly seventy years of sanc­tion by the highest judicial authority, should be honestly and faithfully observed and maintained by all who enjoy the benefits of our compact of union; and that all acts of individuals or of State Legislatures to defeat the purpose or nullify the requirements of that provision, and the laws made in pursuance of it, are hostile in character, subvers­ive of the Constitution, and revolutionary in their effect.


21 posted on 05/10/2020 2:48:08 PM PDT by woodpusher
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To: colorado tanker
I suppose it would be within Senator Davis’ interesting views on State sovereignty that each State may regulate or not the slave trade as it sees fit - except that the Constitution reserves that power to Congress.

It seems unclear what provision of the Constitution reserves to Congress the power to regulate the slave trade. Is this a reference to the interstate commerce clause? Does it pertain to regulation of trade in the territories?

I know of no Federal regulation of the domestic slave trade. The Constitution restricted banning or taxing the international importation of slaves until 1808. It was then banned. There were four laws on that trade, the Act of 1807 (effective 1/1/1808, banning the trade), and the Act of 1818, 1819, 1820. The internation trade became a capital offense. The domestic slave trade in the United States during the civil war era was interstate trade, largely with northern slave states selling slaves south.

The slave trade notoriously did business in the capital, a Federal district, with an auction block down the road from the White House. In the absence of any Federal regulation prohibiting the domestic slave trade, what would prevent a State from passing regulations which violate no Federal regulation? States allowed or prohibited slavery.

Virginia passed a bill in 1779 to the effect,

Be it enacted by the General Assembly, that no persons shall, henceforth, be slaves within this commonwealth, except such as were so on the first day of this present session of Assembly, and the descendants of the females of them.

Negroes and mulattoes which shall hereafter be brought into this commonwealth and kept therein one whole year, together, or so long at different times as shall amount to one year, shall be free. [But if they shall not depart the commonwealth within one year thereafter they shall be out of the protection of the laws.

. . .

“51. A Bill concerning Slaves, 18 June 1779,” Founders Online, National Archives, https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-02-02-0132-0004-0051. [Original source: The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, vol. 2, 1777–18 June 1779, ed. Julian P. Boyd. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1950, pp. 470–473.]

The property right in slaves was certainly recognized in the fugitive slave clause in Article 4.

Regarding freedmen migration, Lincoln appeared to opine that the north could decide whether to receive them, which could not be a Federal action.

CW 5:534-535, President Lincoln, December 1, 1862, Annual Message to Congress

Heretofore colored people, to some extent, have fled north from bondage; and now, perhaps, from both bondage and destitution. But if gradual emancipation and deportation be adopted, they will have neither to flee from. Their old masters will give them wages at least until new laborers can be procured; and the freed men, in turn, will gladly give their labor for the wages, till new homes can be found for them, in congenial climes, and with people of their own blood and race. This proposition can be trusted on the mutual interests involved. And, in any event, cannot the north decide for itself, whether to receive them?

22 posted on 05/10/2020 3:21:15 PM PDT by woodpusher
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To: woodpusher

US Const., Art. I, Sec. 9, cl. 1.


23 posted on 05/10/2020 4:20:58 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker
[#17] I suppose it would be within Senator Davis’ interesting views on State sovereignty that each State may regulate or not the slave trade as it sees fit - except that the Constitution reserves that power to Congress.

[#23] US Const., Art. I, Sec. 9, cl. 1.

Section 9.

The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

That clause has nothing to do with reserving the power to regulate the slave trade to the Federal government. The whole of Article I, Section 9 places limits on the powers of the Federal government. Clause 1 withholds, from the Federal government, the power to prohibit the importation of slaves until 1808. It neither granted nor reserved any powers.

It does not speak to reserving the regulatory power to the Federal government after 1808. It speaks to importation with regard to the African slave trade. Importation of African slaves was prohibited as of 1/1/1808 and later, in 1820, any American engagement in such trade, anywhere, was made a capital offense. The last hanging was in 1862, with the Captain caught running slaves from Africa to Cuba.

The slave trade discussed in the civil war era did not involve bringing in slaves from Africa.

24 posted on 05/10/2020 4:53:35 PM PDT by woodpusher
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To: woodpusher; x; colorado tanker; OIFVeteran
woodpusher: "In this restricted political sense, the collective people of a State are the State, and the State is a sovereign."

We are here working on the definitions and implications of the word "sovereign".
We previously agreed that a state is not "sovereign" in relation to Federal government -- any more than my township is "sovereign" in relationship to my county, or my county is "sovereign" in relationship to my state.
No political entity is "sovereign" of laws & treaties previously ratified.

But Jefferson Davis here refers to the states as "sovereign" over the Federal government, and we have now agreed that Davis was wrong about that, right?

25 posted on 05/11/2020 6:35:22 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: BroJoeK
We are here working on the definitions and implications of the word "sovereign". We previously agreed that a state is not "sovereign" in relation to Federal government -- any more than my township is "sovereign" in relationship to my county, or my county is "sovereign" in relationship to my state. No political entity is "sovereign" of laws & treaties previously ratified.

But Jefferson Davis here refers to the states as "sovereign" over the Federal government, and we have now agreed that Davis was wrong about that, right?

"We" seem to be laboring over the definition of a State, and the distinction between a State government (the three branches, with all the officials) and a State as a political or juridical personality (the People). Perhaps Justice Iredell can explain it better than I.

Penhallow et al. v. Doanes Administrators, 3 U.S. 54, 92-95 (1795)

IREDELL, J.

If Congress, previous to the Articles of Confederation, possessed any authority, it was an authority, as I have shown, derived from the people of each province in the first instance. When the obnoxious acts of Parliament passed, if the people in each Province had chosen to resist separately, they undoubtedly had equal right to do so as to join in general measures of resistance with the people of the other Provinces, however unwise and destructive such a policy might and undoubtedly

3 U. S. 93

would have been. If they had pursued this separate system, and afterwards the people of each Province had resolved that such province should be a free and independent State, the State from that moment would have become possessed of all the powers of sovereignty internal and external (viz., the exclusive right of providing for their own government, and regulating their intercourse with foreign nations) as completely as any one of the ancient Kingdoms or Republics of the world, which never yet had formed or thought of forming any sort of Federal union whatever. A distinction was taken at the bar between a state and the people of the state. It is a distinction I am not capable of comprehending. By a State forming a Republic (speaking of it as a moral person) I do not mean the Legislature of the State, the Executive of the State, or the Judiciary, but all the citizens which compose that State and are, if I may so express myself, integral parts of it, all together forming a body politic. The great distinction between Monarchies and Republics (at least our Republics) in general is that in the former, the monarch is considered as the sovereign, and each individual of his nation as subject to him, though in some countries with many important special limitations. This, I say, is generally the case, for it has not been so universally.

But in a Republic, all the citizens, as such, are equal, and no citizen can rightfully exercise any authority over another but in virtue of a power constitutionally given by the whole community, and such authority, when exercised, is in effect an act of the whole community which forms such body politic. In such governments, therefore, the sovereignty resides in the great body of the people, but it resides in them not as so many distinct individuals, but in their politic capacity only. Thus A. B. C. and D., citizens of Pennsylvania, and as such together with all the citizens of Pennsylvania, and as such, together with all the citizens of Pennsylvania, share in the sovereignty of the state. Suppose a state to consist exactly of the number of 100,000 citizens, and it were practicable for all of them to assemble at one time and in one place, and that 99,999 did actually assemble: The state would not be in fact assembled. Why? Because the state in fact is composed of all the citizens, not of a part only, however large that part may be, and one is wanting, in the same manner as 99£ is not a hundred, because one pound is wanting to complete the full sum. But as such exactness in human affairs cannot take place, as the world would be at an end or involved in universal massacre and confusion if entire unanimity from every society was required; as the assembling in large numbers, if practicable as to the actual meeting of all the citizens, or even a considerable part of them, could be productive of no rational result because there could be no general debate, no consultation of the whole, nor

3 U. S. 94

of consequence a determination grounded on reason and reflection, and a deliberate view of all the circumstances necessary to be taken into consideration, mankind has long practiced (except where special exceptions have been solemnly adopted) upon the principle that the majority shall bind the whole, and in large countries, at least, that representatives shall be chosen to act on the part of the whole. But when they do so, they decide for the whole, and not for themselves only.

Thus when the legislature of any state passes a bill by a majority, competent to bind the whole, it is an act of the whole assembly, not of the majority merely. So when this Court gives a judgment by the opinion of a majority, it is the judgment, in a legal sense, of the whole Court. So I conceive when any law is passed in any state in pursuance of constitutional authority, it is a law of the whole state acting in its legislative capacity, as are also executive and judiciary acts constitutionally authorized, acts of the whole state in its executive or judiciary capacity, and not the personal acts alone of the individuals, composing those branches of government. The same principles apply as to legislative, executive, or judicial acts of the United States, which are acts of the people of the United States in those respective capacities, as the former are of the people of a single state. These principles have long been familiar in regard to the exercise of a constitutional power as to treaties. These are deemed the treaties of the two nations, not of the persons only whose authority was actually employed in their formation. There is not one principle that I can imagine which gives such an effect as to treaties that has not such an operation on any other legitimate act of government, all powers being equally derived from the same fountain, all held equally in trust, and all, when rightfully exercised, equally binding upon those from whom the authority was derived.

I conclude, therefore, that every particle of authority which originally resided either in Congress or in any branch of the state governments was derived from the people who were permanent inhabitants of each province in the first instance and afterwards became citizens of each state; that this authority was conveyed by each body politic separately, and not by all the people in the several provinces or states jointly, and of course that no authority could be conveyed to the whole but that which previously was possessed by the several parts; that the distinction between a state and the people of a state has in this respect no foundation, each expression in substance meaning the same thing; consequently, that one ground of argument at the bar, tending to show the superior sovereignty of Congress in the instance in question, was not tenable, and therefore that upon that ground the exercise of the authority in question can not be supported.

3 U. S. 95

I have already, however, stated my opinion that from the nature of our political situation it was highly reasonable and proper that Congress should be possessed of such an authority, and this is a consideration of no small weight to induce an inference that they actually possessed it when their powers were so indefinite and when it seems to have been the sense of all the states that Congress should possess all the incidents to external sovereignty, or, in other words, the power of war and peace, so far as other nations were concerned, though the states in some particulars differed as to the construction of the general powers given for that purpose.

Two principles appear to me to be clear. 1. The authority was not possessed by Congress unless given by all the states. 2. If once given, no state could, by any act of its own, disavow and recall the authority previously given without withdrawing from the confederation.


26 posted on 05/11/2020 8:46:07 AM PDT by woodpusher
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To: woodpusher; x; colorado tanker; OIFVeteran
woodpusher quoting Iredell: Except, of course, that the Constitution was ratified in the name of "We the People of the United States", not "we the sovereign states of a weak confederation".

And significantly, in that same 1795 case, Penhallow v. Doane's Administrators, in which Justice Paterson wrote the unanimous ruling, Patterson said (among other things):

Indeed, no place in the 1795 Penhallow v. Doane's Administrators ruling does any justice opine that states are sovereign over Congress.

But in his May 7, 1860 Senate floor speech, Senator Davis claimed:

So I'll take your words here as signifying you agree that Senator Davis was wrong to imply the states are sovereign over National government.
27 posted on 05/12/2020 6:01:51 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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