Posted on 02/22/2020 7:52:14 AM PST by Raymond Pamintuan
I've been watching some NBA games on YouTube and decided to update my ranking of the greatest basketball players of all time. The variables are player statistics, the impact the player had on his team, the strength of the opposition, and the strength of the player’s team (such as whether he had someone to elevate his game).
I use a tier system, where arguments can be made for any particular ranking for players within the same tier.
In my opinion, Michael Jordan is the greatest of all time (the GOAT). There’s never been anyone who dominated both ends in a manner he did. He went to the finals six times and won every time – his dominance was so overwhelming, even when he was sick as a dog (such as during the match against the Jazz).
(Note: * Active player as of Jan 1, 2020)
TIER 1: MICHAEL JORDAN
TIER 2 (in no particular order): LARRY BIRD MAGIC JOHNSON KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR KOBE BRYANT WILT CHAMBERLAIN WILL RUSSELL LEBRON JAMES*
TIER 3 (in no particular order): JOHN STOCKTON CHARLES BARKLEY SHAQUILLE O’NEIL KARL MALONE SCOTTIE PIPPEN HAKEEM OLAJUWON TIM DUNCAN JERRY WEST ELGIN BAYLOR JULIUS ERVING OSCAR ROBERTSON BOB PETTIT
TIER 4 (in no particular order): ALLEN IVERSON REGGIE MILLER RUSSELL WESTBROOK* BOB COUSY PATRICK EWING STEPHEN CURRY* KEVIN DURANT* DWYANE WADE RICK BARRY KEVIN MCHALE JASON KIDD MOSES MALONE KEVIN GARNETT STEVE NASH DAVID ROBINSON ISIAH THOMAS GEORGE MIKAN JOHN HAVLICEK PAUL PIERCE DIRK NOWITZKI
Notes: 1. Larry Bird hasn't been given the respect he deserves. There is no doubt that he was one of the greatest basketball players of all time. He was definitely its greatest trash talker. The thing that upset his opponents the most was that he’ll tell them what he’s going to do and then he’ll do it, and it didn’t matter if he was double-teamed, he’ll sink the basket. If I were to choose between Bird and LeBron, I’ll choose Bird every time - he NEVER slacked off, he never choked during critical games, and he never left openings in his team’s defense, unlike LeBron.
2. I put James LeBron into Tier 2 due to his dominance and statistics. But he can NEVER compare to Michael Jordan, who is the GOAT because of LeBron's pattern of choking in critical games. He LOST six NBA championships, with teams designed around him. Think about that for a moment. The Chicago Bulls weren't built around MJ - he was its leader and greatest player, but he was just part of a whole.
3. I put my favorite player, Charles Barkley, in Tier 3 despite he probably should be in Tier 2. If he had a Dennis Rodman or John Stockton, he definitely would've made the transition.
4. John Stockton is the NBA’s all-time assist and steals leader. By a wide margin – over 700 more than MJ and over 1100 more than Olajuwon. Think about that. He had the worst luck to be stuck playing for the Utah Jazz his entire career with only Karl Malone as a top player. If Stockton played for the Lakers, Bulls, or Celtics, he would’ve moved up to Tier 2.
5. Kobe v. Shaq. While Shaq was an absolute monster and dominated the league, I honestly couldn't see putting him into Tier 2 because of his inconsistencies. I put Kobe into Tier 2 simply because of his drive for excellence - he never stopped trying to be better. One’s a shotgun, the other’s a .338.
Jordan also beat Bird when it came to blocked shots. The way my father compared players was asking questions, like if Jordan took it to the hoop against Bill Russell, what would be the result.
Heartily agree with you about Wilt. A bit of trivia that in his 100 point game he, a miserable free thrower, made 28 out of 32. At KU he put the shot 58 feet when the world record was 60.
Chamberlain was also a great volleyball player, some say he loved playing volleyball even more than basketball.
This goes back 50+ years ago..
I played a mean game of two man volley ball on the strand in Manhattan Beach. Young, 6’7”, 250 lbs - could go all day in that hot sand.
And then one day, Wilt came over and asked for a game. I haven’t the faintest memory who we played with, all I know is I got trashed. Wilt would vault and spike one right through my hands into my face. It never stopped. I felt like I had been put through a meat tenderizer. Great moves, reactions like a snake, and a great guy. Best time in my life sharing a few post game beers!
I don’t disagree at all.
But if we are just counting rings...Mr Russell takes on all challengers. Lol.
I look at it this way. If we had the ultimate pickup game where you could pick any NBA player, past or present. If you had the first pick, who would you take, and my answer is Russell.
Jordan had more points (regular season) 32,292 to 21,791.
Jordan had 6672 rebounds to Bird's 8974. But Bird was a power forward.
Jordan had 5633 assists to Bird's 5695, a virtual wash.
In terms of statistics, there really is no comparison. Jordan was a fantastic offensive and defensive player.
Jordan's individual accolades and accomplishments include six NBA Finals Most Valuable Player (MVP) Awards, ten scoring titles (both all-time records), five MVP Awards, ten All-NBA First Team designations, nine All-Defensive First Team honors, fourteen NBA All-Star Game selections, three All-Star Game MVP Awards, three steals titles, and the 1988 NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award. He holds the NBA records for highest career regular season scoring average (30.12 points per game) and highest career playoff scoring average (33.45 points per game). In 1999, he was named the greatest North American athlete of the 20th century by ESPN, and was second to Babe Ruth on the Associated Press' list of athletes of the century.
The logo?
I don't know....West was pretty good in his day.
If they were all at their best...I have to agree with you. I’ve met him a couple of times. Not someone I would have a beer with...but he is the best, most successful player of all time.
I have no interest in the Thug League. Let them have their tattoos and their illegitimate children, I have better things to do with my time.
First - When the greatest team player (Bill Russell) names Wilt as the most unstoppable player of all time you kinda have to go with that as the greatest.
Second - I am so tired of people naming Jordan as the greatest because “He won six championships and NEVER lost”. So what. John Havlicek won EIGHT and never lost. The first six with Russell and the last two with Cowens (My all-time favorite player). As stated by another poster here - Jordan is the most overrated player of all time. Shooting the ball 35-40 times a game will get you those points you know and the post players at that time would get mauled and not get to go the the FT line while you couldn’t even breathe on Jordan without sending him to the line. Points add up fast that way. And by-the-way, Russell would have been 12 for 12 in the NBA finals had he not gotten hurt against the St. Louis Hawks in the final his second year in the league. Take that Jordan.
Third - The rule changes of traveling have elevated the stats of so many players of the last 20 years along with palming the ball and the total disappearance of the 3-second call that it is hard to even consider any of these players as belonging in the argument. Let’s see these players have to make their moves today with the rules of the 40s to the early 80s. They would be lost.
Fourth - The argument about the early league having much fewer teams made it easier to be a star. HUH?! When you have fewer teams you have a greater concentration of talent. Also, these teams knew each other’s plays since that would face them up to 10-12 times a year. Don’t you think it would be a hell of a lot harder to win year in and year out like the Celtics did when they only had six plays that everyone was waiting for? That is all that Auerbach used. That is how great they were and Russell led the way. Best player? My choice
I don’t watch NBA any more. But Bill Russell is the best of all time in my book.
Where’s Bob Cousy?
I know her had to be good because I had a pair of Bob Cousy sneakers back in the early ‘60s....
“What about John Stockton?”
Stockton was a give guy for more than a shooter. His lifetime shooting percentages were excellent for a guard, at over 50% and 48%, and as a dish guy and not shooting very much, didn’t get to the line very often. But because of size, he lacked rebounding capacity but did accomplish steals at over two a game career.
Great point guard, he reminded me of Bob Cousy who won six straight assist titles, thirteen all star games and six rings in the NBA along with one MVP partially because he played four seasons before the award existed.
Stockton was a great passer, and helped make Carl Malone a great player. Top five choice, but not top tier as a traditional point guard.
rwood
I hope you are old enough to have seen Oscar play. He was not exciting to watch, he was a surgeon. Most players in the 50’s and 60’s were not exciting as they did a job rather than sold their play like today’s players. Names like Bill Russell, Wilt, Jerry West, Bob Pettit, Bailey Howell, Elgin Baylor, Walt Bellamy, Willis Reid, and others would have made many lists like this thread one. But they lacked flair and didn’t care about drama. They just did their job.......very well.
An interesting point is position players, especially sixth man, was not part of the thread list. My choice would be John Havlicek as a large amount of his career was as a sixth. His career game stats were over 20 a game, over 6 assists, and just under 5 on rebounds. For a guy that did a lot of sixth, that ain’t bad.
rwood
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