[a fool in paradise]

The 2 60s songs I cite have drum and bass with the rapper spitting on rhythm. That is rap. Not origins.

Undeniable if you listen to them.

[ConservativeDude]

I agree entirely. My only point being if someone wants to talk about origins you have to dig pretty deep.

I also agree with the post about the Iliad and have taught that same point often in the past. I also almost mentioned Rapture. Ah blondie. Legendary.