Posted on 01/15/2020 5:34:47 AM PST by NorseViking
It was the retaliation killings that turned the general populace against the Germans; again, it was openly admitted after the USSR collapsed. The USSR was a giant prison, and less than a decade earlier Stalin had killed millions in Ukraine (the Holodomor).
One need look no further than the treatment of returned POWs after the war to understand Stalin.
Plenty of Ukrainians collaborated with the Einsatzgruppen in murdering local Jewish populations; public opinion turned against the Germans when reprisal killings (for Germans killed) took a toll on Ukrainian Christians.
Ten years before the war started, Stalin had already killed more people in Ukraine than the number of Jewish people Hitler murdered later. Both were very evil men.
“...Ten years before the war started, Stalin had already killed more people in Ukraine than the number of Jewish people Hitler murdered later.....”
25 million Ukrainians were deliberately starved to death or otherwise murdered by Stalin. The Holodmor, they called it, because they refused to let the communists just come in and take their lands.
Being of Ukie ancestry myself, I have zero love for ANY sort of Nazi/fascism/socialism/communism.
“...Both were very evil men....
Absolutely. The “Ceacescu Protocol” should have been applied at the earliest opportunity to both of them.
The story of pink fluffy Wermacht and mean evil SS is a myth. Just like most of that was taught in the West about Eastern Front. The reason is that the Germans wrote about it and they sure wanted to whitewash themselves.
True enough.
What I know of them, my Airborne father told me. He faced off against the Wermacht, SS, and Luftwaffe fallschirmjaeger as well.
He had a lot of respect for the fallschirmjaeger. Not so much for the SS. Pretty much hated those guys.
unbending love of country.
No. They learned to hate Hitler more than they hated Stalin. Hitler wanted to kill them. Stalin allowed them to live.
My dad was in the 7th Army and one of his first jobs when he arrived in North Africa was processing Afrika Korps POWs. The Army took the time to separate SS out from the rest. Hard for them to deny what they were because the SS all had a distinctive tatoo. His unit selected a tough Jewish GI to do the sorting.
At the time SS were similar to the paramilitary Communist political commissars that the Soviets installed in their units, only much more violent. At that time an SS prospect was required to have committed a proven act of cruelty against the German people in order to qualify. Against a German other than a Jewish German since that would have been common in Nazi Germany. Basically they were a subset of criminal sociopaths selected for their depravity.
I think the majority of SS were true believers in a Nazi cause. Some units like Sondercommando Dirlewanger included convicted pederasts, maniacs, violent asylum patients and all such trash. Its commander himself was a convicted child molester.
That sounds about right.
My dad was stationed back in Germany in the early 50s, in Heidelberg. He said that you could still spot the hard cases around town, the Nazi true believers, probably SS among them. Thugs. They stood out from the normal German citizenry.
Paul Johnson wrote in ‘Modern Times’ that in the Nazi party Germany had been taken over by a criminal gang, and the average German opposed it only at a very real risk to their own lives. They learned to either go along with the program or to keep their objections quiet.
Although the movie took place in Belarus, the movie "Come and See" was the most graphic depiction of what the Nazis did in Russia.
My understanding was that during the SS “Boot Camp” each recruit was given a dog that would be their constant companion during their training.
In order to “graduate”, they were ordered to kill the dog to prove their ruthlessness and ability to carry out orders, no matter what.
Some say the movie director made the protagonist after himself. He also said the story was heavily toned done. ‘If I include everything I saw it would be a worst horror movie ever’.
Done=down.
flr
You mentioned Sondercommando Dirlewanger, I believe that was the unit portrayed in Come and See.
There are images in that movie I wish I could unsee.
Yep, Dirlewanger was active in Poland and Belarus. They killed about 1/4 of Belarus population.
That fits the psyche they were after. Although it sounds like it might have required more dogs than was practical. But maybe they did.
“...what the Nazis did in Russia...”
Yeah they were beasts, for sure. The Russians paid them back when got into Berlin. In spades...
More like in tea spoons. Berlin is still standing and inhabited.
The difference between German occupation of East Europe and Soviet invasion of Berlin was that it was illegal to commit criminal acts against civilians for the Soviets. I don’t say it didn’t happen but troops caught at it were court martialed.
For the Germans robbery, arson, rape and mass-murder were official policy. They officially waged of war of extermination of ‘inferior race’. They punished troops who refused to take part in it.
“...Berlin is still standing and inhabited....”
Good point.
I did NOT know that the Soviets court-martialed soldiers for abuse. Thank you for the edification.
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