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To: BroJoeK; jeffersondem; DiogenesLamp; rockrr; DoodleDawg; OIFVeteran
>>Joey wrote: "Neither Pinckney cousin is ever quoted as having acknowledged or defended an unlimited "right of secession" at pleasure."

Few did. The right to secede – to self-determination – in the minds of most patriots, came only after a "long train of abuses and usurpations," and is enshrined in the Constitution.

The same constraint applied to those making the laws:

"Can it be believed, that under the jealousies prevailing against the General Government, at the adoption of the Constitution, the States meant to surrender the authority of preserving order, of enforcing moral duties and restraining vice, within their own territory?... Laws are made for men of ordinary understanding, and should, therefore, be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense. Their meaning is not to be sought for in metaphysical subtleties, which may make anything mean everything or nothing, at pleasure."

[To Justice William Johnson, 1823, Monticello, June 12, 1823, in Thomas Jefferson, "The Writings of Thomas Jefferson Vol 15." Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1903, pp.448-450]

Many, if not most, debates on the constitutionality of this or that law is based on those "metaphysical subtleties" (which can mean anything,) rather than original intent. Those who believe the government has the right to make laws at pleasure are enemies of the Constitution, and the people. The right to self-determination does not exist in the minds of controlling, tyranny-minded individuals, who are the most dangerous of all people.

Mr. Kalamata

599 posted on 01/12/2020 6:57:00 AM PST by Kalamata (BIBLE RESEARCH TOOLS: http://bibleresearchtools.com/)
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To: Kalamata; jeffersondem; DiogenesLamp; rockrr; DoodleDawg; OIFVeteran
Kalamata: "The right to secede – to self-determination – in the minds of most patriots, came only after a "long train of abuses and usurpations," and is enshrined in the Constitution."

Oh my goodness -- the first part of your sentence here is exactly right, but at then you descend into gibberish -- "and is enshrined in the Constitution".
In fact, the Constitution says nothing about either secession or "self determination".

Our Founders had plenty to say about "a long train of abuses and usurpations", but the Constitution itself says nothing.

Kalamata quoting Jefferson: "Laws are made for men of ordinary understanding, and should, therefore, be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense.
Their meaning is not to be sought for in metaphysical subtleties, which may make anything mean everything or nothing, at pleasure.""

Exactly right, but metaphysics is what our pro-Confederates appeal to in order to justify 1860 unilateral unapproved declarations of secession at pleasure.

1,274 posted on 01/30/2020 4:02:54 PM PST by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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