Posted on 12/22/2019 4:23:47 AM PST by Bull Snipe
"I beg to present you as a Christmas gift the City of Savannah, with one hundred and fifty heavy guns and plenty of ammunition and about twenty-five thousand bales of cotton." General William T. Sherman's "March to the Sea" was over. During the campaign General Sherman had made good on his promise d to make Georgia howl. Atlanta was a smoldering ruin, Savannah was in Union hands, closing one of the last large ports to Confederate blockade runners. Shermans Army wrecked 300 miles of railroad and numerous bridges and miles of telegraph lines. It seized 5,000 horses, 4,000 mules, and 13,000 head of cattle. It confiscated 9.5 million pounds of corn and 10.5 million pounds of fodder, and destroyed uncounted cotton gins and mills. In all, about 100 million dollars of damage was done to Georgia and the Confederate war effort.
Have you read this by Jefferson?
"where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy: that every State has a natural right in cases not within the compact, to nullify of their own authority all assumptions of power by others within their limits: that without this right, they would be under the dominion, absolute and unlimited, of whosoever might exercise this right of judgment for them In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution That they will concur with this commonwealth in considering the said acts as so palpably against the Constitution as to amount to an undisguised declaration that that compact is not meant to be the measure of the powers of the General Government, but that it will proceed in the exercise over these States, of all powers whatsoever: that they will view this as seizing the rights of the States, and consolidating them in the hands of the General Government, with a power assumed to bind the States, (not merely as the cases made federal, but in all cases whatsoever, by laws made, not with their consent, but by others against their consent: that this would be to surrender the form of government we have chosen, and live under one deriving its powers from its own will, and not from our authority; and that the co-States, recurring to their natural right in cases not made federal, will concur in declaring these acts void, and of no force, and will each take measures of its own for providing that neither these acts, nor any others of the General Government not plainly and intentionally authorized by the Constitution, shall be exercised within their respective territories.
[Resolutions Relative to the Alien and Sedition laws, 1789, in Thomas Jefferson, "The Writings of Thomas Jefferson Vol 17." Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1903, pp. 385-390]
It appears Mr. Jefferson would have been none too happy with "honest" Abe.
Mr. Kalamata
>>rockrr wrote: “Your incessant slander, mischaracterizations, and maligning are repugnant.”
You made the charge, now show the evidence.
>>OIFVeteran wrote: “Still waiting on the quote form Jefferson Davis were he believe all men should be freed. Thanks in advance.”
I am not sure if he ever did.
We do know that Lincoln was a white separatist/supremacist who wanted blacks to be free in another country, if they were to be freed at all. He despised the abolitionists, as did his hero, the slave-master Henry Clay.
Can you show us where Lincoln clearly said he WANTED all men to be free, when he was not engaged in a political stunt?
Face it: nothing Davis did or did not do will hide Lincoln’s legacy of terror. Lincoln will go down in history as a blood-thirsty, power-mad psychopath. Count on it.
Mr. Kalamata
>>OIFVeteran wrote: “Here James Madison war s is to never allow America to be rendered into pieces, the very thing that the southern rebels did.”
Baloney. James Madison and the real republicans of his day would have tarred and feathered Lincoln, and drug him behind a horse for 40 miles, before hanging him.
The greedy, power-mad Whigs, like Lincoln, divided our country. Only the polically-challenged would believe Lincoln was a true republican. He and his ilk formed the foundation of the influence-peddling, big government RINO’s, and the Democrat Party.
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>>OIFVeteran wrote: “As conservatives we are suppose to believe in the original intent of the founding fathers and the constitution
You are not a conservative.
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>>OIFVeteran wrote: “I have posted many quotes from the founders showing their intent was that the Union was to be perpetual.”
You are a cherry-picker. You conveniently left out the parts that warn against Lincoln’s kind of tyranny. The Founding Fathers would have never accepted the tyranny of that power-hungry madman. They created the Constitution in an attempt to prevent his kind from rising to power.
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>>OIFVeteran wrote: “Yet you still dont it. I think you should stop calling yourself conservative.”
I am the only conservative in this conversation. You don’t even know the meaning of the word.
You really should study how to interpret history, rather than cherry-pick it.
Mr. Kalamata
When's that going to start?
>>OIFVeteran wrote: “Ill get that to you as soon as you show me a quote from your hero Jefferson Davis that he believed that all men everywhere should be free.”
Sorry, but I couldn’t resist toying with you about that really dumb request. If I, or anyone else on this board, had known of Davis making such a statement, it would have posted long ago.
Now, give us the details on the Jefferson quote.
Mr. Kalamata
>>Kalamata wrote: “Lincoln will go down in history as a blood-thirsty, power-mad psychopath. Count on it.”
>>DoodleDaw wrote: “When’s that going to start?”
About 15 years ago. I am most curious to see whose legacy will end up in the trashcan, first: Lincoln’s or Darwin’s.
When the first Lost Causer websites hit the internet?
I am most curious to see whose legacy will end up in the trashcan, first: Lincolns or Darwins.
Be sure to wake us all when that happens.
Probably when the world ends due to climate change...about 11.2 years, according to AOC.
After reading the first page of the thread, I skipped ahead to the last, as I expected it to devolve into hubris, innuendo, and personal attacks.
I was not disappointed...lol.
Last summer, we spent a day at Monticello. It was incredible, including a "conversation" with Thomas Jefferson's "interpreter." It was like going back in time, actually listening to Mr. Jefferson's words. He adroitly addressed a woman's question on slavery, taking over 20 minutes to answer her.
I saw her in the gift shop, and thanked her for the question. Her response? "I learned that I need to read a LOT more." Judging by what I see here, we could all read a lot more, hoping to gain more understanding.
We have got to get away from discussing issues in sound bites and tweets.
“Lincoln will go down in history as a blood-thirsty, power-mad psychopath. Count on it.”
Only to those who view the Confederacy as something noble, to be admired and revered.
"Abraham Lincoln was NOT an abolitionist."
[David Herbert Donald, "Lincoln Reconsidered: Essays on the Civil War Era." Vintage Books, 1st Ed, 195, p.19]
Lincoln has already gone down in history as one of the greatest Presidents in our country’s history. Thousands of books have been written about him, many places named after him, and a great monument to him stands in our nations capital. In the hearts of all true Americans he is revered in alongside the founding fathers. He was the leader that finally reconciled our Declaration Of Independence with our Consitution and created a “new birth of freedom” in this country.
The delusional ravings of a small and petty man such as yourself will have no effect on his legacy. As we say in the military, you are not fit to polish his boots.
He wasn't, not like the abolitionists of the times. But he did oppose slavery his for most of his life and was instrumental in getting the amendment that finally killed it passed.
Now, to be clear, does this fall under the "blood-thirsty Lincoln" category? Or the "power-mad psychopath Lincoln" category?
You also mentioned that Abe was executed. Please correct that.
In addition, getting back to Lincoln and Taney, are you familiar with who authored the following passage?:
Whatever may be the force of the decision of the Supreme Court in binding the parties and settling their rights in the particular case before them, I am not prepared to admit that a construction given to the constitution by the Supreme Court in deciding any one or more cases fixes of itself irrevokably [sic] and permanently its construction in that particular and binds the states and the Legislative and executive branches of the General government, forever afterwards to conform to it and adopt it in every other case as the true reading of the instrument although all of them may unite in believing it erroneous.
>>Kalamata wrote: Lincoln will go down in history as a blood-thirsty, power-mad psychopath. Count on it.
>>Bull Snipe wrote: “Only to those who view the Confederacy as something noble, to be admired and revered.”
Only a historically-brainwashed fool would say that.
Mr. Kalamata
>>OIFVeteran wrote: “Lincoln has already gone down in history as one of the greatest Presidents in our countrys history. Thousands of books have been written about him, many places named after him, and a great monument to him stands in our nations capital.”
You have been brainwashed by the Marxist Lincoln Cult.
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>>OIFVeteran wrote: “In the hearts of all true Americans he is revered in alongside the founding fathers.”
No true American would revere a blood-thirsty tyrant and war criminal.
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>>OIFVeteran wrote: “He was the leader that finally reconciled our Declaration Of Independence with our Consitution and created a new birth of freedom in this country.”
Lincoln despised the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution. He was a power-mad crony-capitalist, FIRST, and he would destroy anyone who got in the way of his ambition!
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>>OIFVeteran wrote: “The delusional ravings of a small and petty man such as yourself will have no effect on his legacy. As we say in the military, you are not fit to polish his boots.”
Says the rabid Lincoln hero-worshiper, who wouldn’t know the Constitution if it whopped him upside the head. You are a disgrace to the uniform.
Mr. Kalamata
DoodleDawg wrote, “[Lincoln] did oppose slavery his for most of his life and was instrumental in getting the amendment that finally killed it passed.”
You are a liar. Prove you are not a liar. Betcha can’t!
Mr. Kalamata
No, I am correct; and since have opened your mouth, put your money where your mouth is.
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>>HandyDandy wrote: "You also mentioned that Abe was executed. Please correct that."
You are asking me to lie. No thanks. There were executioners lined up from Washington D.C. to Texas "dying" to rid the world of that terrorist.
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>>HandyDandy wrote: "In addition, getting back to Lincoln and Taney, are you familiar with who authored the following passage?:
"Whatever may be the force of the decision of the Supreme Court in binding the parties and settling their rights in the particular case before them, I am not prepared to admit that a construction given to the constitution by the Supreme Court in deciding any one or more cases fixes of itself irrevokably [sic] and permanently its construction in that particular and binds the states and the Legislative and executive branches of the General government, forever afterwards to conform to it and adopt it in every other case as the true reading of the instrument although all of them may unite in believing it erroneous.
That sounds like something a true Constitutional scholar would say. It is certainly Jeffersonian, as well as anti-Marshallian.
Mr. Kalamata
Early in my career (1980s) I met an older man and we worked in the same office building; traveled on company business together a time or two; I had meals with him and his wife.
Reading his obituary several years ago I learned something I never knew: he served in WWII with Merrill's Marauders and was awarded the Silver Star.
It is strange how some men can never seem to work their military service into a conversation and some can.
Well, for starters, Lincoln didnt reach a point in his life that an ordinary person would refer to as his dying days. His life was cut short by an assassins bullet. For example, Jefferson Davis did get to live until his dying days. In fact, he was able to live long enough to have been able to say the following in a speech at a Lost Cause Ceremony, "United you are now, and if the Union is ever to be broken, let the other side break it." Furthermore, Lincoln had two colonization attempts to coal mines in South America. Neither got off the ground. There was a real attempt to colonize 500(?) blacks to Haiti. Another dismal disaster. Some immediately took off for parts unknown. The rest returned to America and Lincoln made them paid and uniformed soldiers in the Union. That was the end of Lincolns pursuing colonization. Of course you know, that earlier, Abe met with the leading Blacks of the day (including Fredrick Douglass) and put the idea of colonization directly on the table. He botched it and they were rightfully offended. There really isnt much more to be said about Lincoln and Colonization although your ilk love to milk it.
***************** >>HandyDandy wrote: "You also mentioned that Abe was executed. Please correct that." You are asking me to lie. No thanks. There were executioners lined up from Washington D.C. to Texas "dying" to rid the world of that terrorist.
That is an interesting comment. See above. Abe was struck in the back of his head by the bullet of a crazed assassin. 99% of real Americans would tell you the President was assassinated. You are the first Ive heard use the term, executed.
***************** >>HandyDandy wrote: "In addition, getting back to Lincoln and Taney, are you familiar with who authored the following passage?:
"Whatever may be the force of the decision of the Supreme Court in binding the parties and settling their rights in the particular case before them, I am not prepared to admit that a construction given to the constitution by the Supreme Court in deciding any one or more cases fixes of itself irrevokably [sic] and permanently its construction in that particular and binds the states and the Legislative and executive branches of the General government, forever afterwards to conform to it and adopt it in every other case as the true reading of the instrument although all of them may unite in believing it erroneous. That sounds like something a true Constitutional scholar would say. It is certainly Jeffersonian, as well as anti-Marshallion.
Moving along, do you know who authored this?:
I do not forget the position assumed by some that constitutional questions are to be decided by the Supreme Court, nor do I deny that such decisions must be binding in any case upon the parties to a suit as to the object of that suit, while they are also entitled to very high respect and consideration in all parallel cases by all other departments of the Government. And while it is obviously possible that such decision may be erroneous in any given case, still the evil effect following it, being limited to that particular case, with the chance that it may be overruled and never become a precedent for other cases, can better be borne than could the evils of a different practice. At the same time, the candid citizen must confess that if the policy of the Government upon vital questions affecting the whole people is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court, the instant they are made in ordinary litigation between parties in personal actions the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned their Government into the hands of that eminent tribunal. Nor is there in this view any assault upon the court or the judges. It is a duty from which they may not shrink to decide cases properly brought before them, and it is no fault of theirs if others seek to turn their decisions to political purposes.
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