Posted on 12/22/2019 4:23:47 AM PST by Bull Snipe
"I beg to present you as a Christmas gift the City of Savannah, with one hundred and fifty heavy guns and plenty of ammunition and about twenty-five thousand bales of cotton." General William T. Sherman's "March to the Sea" was over. During the campaign General Sherman had made good on his promise d “to make Georgia howl”. Atlanta was a smoldering ruin, Savannah was in Union hands, closing one of the last large ports to Confederate blockade runners. Sherman’s Army wrecked 300 miles of railroad and numerous bridges and miles of telegraph lines. It seized 5,000 horses, 4,000 mules, and 13,000 head of cattle. It confiscated 9.5 million pounds of corn and 10.5 million pounds of fodder, and destroyed uncounted cotton gins and mills. In all, about 100 million dollars of damage was done to Georgia and the Confederate war effort.
>>OIFVeteran wrote: “Alexander Hamilton was at the New York constitutional ratification convention. As you now they wanted to adopt ratify the constitution but conditionally. The condition being that Amendments would be adopted after ratification, if these amendments weren’t added with a specified time then New York’s ratification would become null and void. Alexander Hamilton wrote to James Madison about this. This is Madison’s response. From James Madison to Alexander Hamilton. N. York Sunday Evening [20 July 1788]
I am still not sure why you keep bringing this up. Hamilton wanted a conditional ratification, and Madison said no. He said they cannot make any promises to incorporate New York’s amendments in the future. That is the end of the story.
Mr. Kalamata
Are you aware that Lincoln campaigned in favor of a national bank throughout his career? This is one of his earliest stump speeches, if not the earliest:
"Fellow-Citizens: I presume you all know who I am. I am humble Abraham Lincoln. I have been solicited by many friends to become a candidate for the Legislature. My politics are short and sweet, like the old woman's dance. I am in favor of a national bank. I am in favor of the internal improvement system, and a high protective tariff. These are my sentiments and political principles. If elected, I shall be thankful; if not it will be all the same."[1]
Lincoln's campaign platform is straight out of Henry Clay's rulebook.
Mr. Kalamata
[1] Announcement of His Candidacy for the State Legislature, about March 1, 1832, in Whitney, Henry Clay, "Life and works of Abraham Lincoln Vol 03: Early Speeches." Current Literature Publishing Co., 1907, p.1
Not a chance. The Confederates believed in the sovereignty of the individual states; Hitler, like Lincoln, rejected federalism in favor of consolidation and central planning. Both were, after all, socialists.
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>>OIFVeteran wrote: "Confederate ideology was just Nazism lite. How so? The Nazi leaders believed that certain people were sub-humsn and needed to be exterminated. The confederate leaders believed that certain people were sub-human and needed to be enslaved.
Lincoln had some of his chosen war-criminals disguised as military officers try to exterminate the Indians. Have you ever heard of the Bear Creek Massacre that occurred on January 29, 1863? How about the Sand Creek Massacre in the spring of 1864? Lincoln also believed blacks were inferior to whites, or could we say, sub-human?
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>>OIFVeteran wrote: "Just as the German Army rounded up Jews to be sent to extermination camps. The confederate army rounded up black Americans and sent them to be enslaved. Just as the US army liberated the Jews in WW2 the US Army liberated the slave in the civil war. By the end of the war 4 million men, woman, and children had been freed from the chains of bondage."
What about slavery in the North? Did you forget about that? How about the New England slave trade? Did you forget about that?
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>>OIFVeteran wrote: "Here’s proof that Jefferson Davis would have been right at home in the SS. "
>>OIFVeteran quoting: "My own convictions as to negro slavery are strong. It has its evils and abuses...We recognize the negro as God and God’s Book and God’s Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him - our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude...You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables them to be.”~Davis >>OIFVeteran quoting: "For us, this is not a problem you can turn a blind eye to-one to be solved by small concessions. For us, it is a problem of whether our nation can ever recover its health, whether the Jewish spirit can ever really be eradicated. Don’t be misled into thinking you can fight a disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus. Don’t think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis. This Jewish contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Jew, has been banished from our midst. Source: D Irving, The War Path: Hitler’s Germany 1933-1939. Papermac, 1978, p.xxi"
This is proof that Lincoln would have been right at home with the SS:
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." [Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858, in Roy P. Basler, "The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln Vol 3." Rutgers University Press, 1953, pp.145-146]
"What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races." [Speech at Springfield, Illinois, July 17, 1858, in Basler, Roy P., "The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln Vol 2." Rutgers University Press, 1953, pp.520-521]
That is not the half of it.
Mr. Kalamata
I do. The comparison on your part was lame and incorrect but I understand why you did it.
Check again, that was DiogenesLamp. Your fellow whackdoodle in crime.
N. York Sunday Evening [20 July 1788]
My Dear Sir
Yours of yesterday is this instant come to hand & I have but a few minutes to answer it. I am sorry that your situation obliges you to listen to propositions of the nature you describe. My opinion is that a reservation of a right to withdraw if amendments be not decided on under the form of the Constitution within a certain time, is a conditional ratification, that it does not make N. York a member of the New Union, and consequently that she could not be received on that plan. Compacts must be reciprocal, this principle would not in such a case be preserved. THE CONSTITUION REQUIRES AND ADOPTION IN TOTO AND FOR EVER. It has been so adopted by the other States. An adoption for a limited time would be as defective as an adoption of some of the articles only. In short any condition whatever must viciate the ratification. What the New Congress by virtue of the power to admit new States, may be able & disposed to do in such case, I do not enquire as I suppose that is not the material point at present. I have not a moment to add more than my fervent wishes for your success & happiness.
James Madison
Show me anywhere that a leader of the confederacy stated a belief as Lincoln did in his letter to Horace Greeley.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.
Yours, A. Lincoln.
>>OIFVeteran wrote: That is not the end of the story. Can you not read? From James Madison to Alexander Hamilton
I can read. But you obviously cannot. You get stuck on a phrase or two, and cannot see the whole picture. I’ll try one more time:
Madison told Hamilton that, once the Constitution was constructed — once it left the Convention — the document was unalterable. Conditional ratifications that would alter the document were not allowed. From that point forward, the document could ONLY be changed by appending amendments (which has happened many times.)
Therefore, the original document has remain intact until this day.
Note: the document could also be “changed” by a blood-thirsty dictator, like Lincoln; but he corrupted only the original intent, not the written words themselves.
That is my last word on that letter.
Mr. Kalamata
>>OIFVeteran wrote: “Quit changing the subject.”
Quit trying to sanitize the history of the blood-thirsty tyrant, Lincoln.
Mr. Kalamata
This is "honest" Abe being honest:
"I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." [Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858: Lincoln's speech, in Roy P. Basler, "The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln Vol 3." Rutgers University Press, 1953, pp.145-146]
Summary (paraphrasing):
"I intend to colonize Blacks and Mulattos to ensure they are "free" somewhere else besides America. I don't want those sub-humans mixing with us white folk. Until then -- while they remain here in American -- they are not free to marry and mingle with whites, to hold public office, to vote, or to serve on juries." -- A. Lincoln
Mr. Kalamata
Of course it’s your last word on the letter because it disproves you’re whole point! You seem me stop reading it after in toto. It clearly shows that the father of the constitution meant for it to be adopted “FOR EVER.” Completely destroying any arguments about this pretend thing of secession by the southern rebels.
This is my last word on that letter because it proves that the constitution was meant to last forever.
Still waiting on the quote form Jefferson Davis were he believe all men should be freed. Thanks in advance.
I submit to you, my fellow-citizens, these considerations, in full confidence that the good sense which has so often marked your decisions will allow them their due weight and effect; and that you will never suffer difficulties, however formidable in appearance, or however fashionable the error on which they may be founded, to drive you into the gloomy and perilous scene into which the advocates for disunion would conduct you. Hearken not to the unnatural voice which tells you that the people of America, knit together as they are by so many cords of affection, can no longer live together as members of the same family; can no longer continue the mutual guardians of their mutual happiness; can no longer be fellowcitizens of one great, respectable, and flourishing empire. Hearken not to the voice which petulantly tells you that the form of government recommended for your adoption is a novelty in the political world; that it has never yet had a place in the theories of the wildest projectors; that it rashly attempts what it is impossible to accomplish. No, my countrymen, shut your ears against this unhallowed language. Shut your hearts against the poison which it conveys; the kindred blood which flows in the veins of American citizens, the mingled blood which they have shed in defense of their sacred rights, consecrate their Union, and excite horror at the idea of their becoming aliens, rivals, enemies. And if novelties are to be shunned, believe me, the most alarming of all novelties, the most wild of all projects, the most rash of all attempts, is that of rendering us in pieces, in order to preserve our liberties and promote our happiness. James Madison
Here James Madison war s is to never allow America to be “rendered into pieces”, the very thing that the southern rebels did. As conservatives we are suppose to believe in the original intent of the founding fathers and the constitution. I have posted many quotes from the founders showing their intent was that the Union was to be perpetual. Yet you still don’t it. I think you should stop calling yourself conservative.
“When any one state in the American Union refuses obedience to the Confederation by which they have bound themselves, the rest have a natural right to compel them to obedience.” - Thomas Jefferson, 24 January, 1786
>>OIFVeteran quoting: ““When any one state in the American Union refuses obedience to the Confederation by which they have bound themselves, the rest have a natural right to compel them to obedience.” - Thomas Jefferson, 24 January, 1786
Where did Jefferson make that statement, and under what circumstances?
Mr. Kalamata
I’ll get that to you as soon as you show me a quote from your hero Jefferson Davis that he believed that all men everywhere should be free.
We should be so lucky...
>>rockrr wrote: “We should be so lucky...”
Child.
>>OIFVeteran wrote: “I’ll get that to you as soon as you show me a quote from your hero Jefferson Davis that he believed that all men everywhere should be free.”
Your incessant hero-worship of a greedy, brutal, blood-thirsty dictator who destroyed our free government cannot be healthy.
Your incessant slander, mischaracterizations, and maligning are repugnant.
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