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To: DiogenesLamp

It seems to me you may be understating the Founder’s intentions (the words “all men are created equal” being in the preamble and thus governing the overall sense and purpose of the following enumerations) and overstating Lincoln’s intent, who was not interested in pressing the slavery issue at this time with these words.

Moreover you seem to be overstating your own case, well-intended as it may be. “Bald-faced lie” is a tad strong. Let us put the best contruction on things, as history has.

This much is certain: you’ve given careful thought to these things and express yourself well.


37 posted on 11/19/2019 1:40:32 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Moreover you seem to be overstating your own case, well-intended as it may be. “Bald-faced lie” is a tad strong. Let us put the best contruction on things, as history has.

You caught me. Yes, i'm overstating the case. From my years of experience in debating with people, you have to go big or go home.

You can't even get people to look at the point if you say something like "he exaggerated a little." You have to use stuff like "bald faced lie" to gin up enough emotional outrage to get people to examine the information you want them to consider.

Trump uses a similar technique. He'll say something outrageous like "Obama wiretapped my office!" Get the media screaming bloody murder, and he will thereby get them to cover a story they would have otherwise ignored. He does this again and again.

Getting back to the founders intention, Jefferson perhaps wanted those words to be meant as applying to slaves too. His original draft contained much harsher condemnation of the practice, but the other committee members removed this language. It just wouldn't work in a predominantly slave owning society, and they knew it would torpedo support for the idea of independence.

Subsequent founders took those words to heart, and freed their own slaves, but saying this was the intent when the document was written is misleading people about what was the actual and correct history of this era.

Lincoln's move was political, and intended to reinforce his narrative that the war was just and consistent with the founding principles. He knew the difference, it's just the version he provided supported his policies, while the real history would not have done so.

This much is certain: you’ve given careful thought to these things and express yourself well.

Well thank you. I have given it much consideration and I learned from studying the origins of "natural born citizen" that "Natural law" foundational principles are really really important in steering a nation on the right course. When I started trying to understand what happened in the Civil War, I realized that there was a lot more going on than what I had been taught growing up.

It changed my view of the whole event.

38 posted on 11/19/2019 3:09:03 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no oither sovereignty.")
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