Affixing blame for the Mountain Meadows Massacre

Patheos ^ | SEPTEMBER 21, 2019 | DAN PETERSON

[Elsie]

Hearsay again?

[Elsie]

Nephi seems to recognize a distinction between the Father and the Son. Christ “witnesseth” obedience unto the Father (2 Nephi 31:7), and keeps the commandments of the Father (2 Nephi 31:7-11). In Jacob’s day, the righteous Nephites worshipped the Father in Christ’s name and saw the story of Father Abraham’s attempted sacrifice of his Son Isaac as “a similitude of God and his Only Begotten Son” (Jacob 4:5-6), which strongly suggests that they are separate individuals. Other passages describe Jesus as in complete harmony with but still subordinate to his Father (3 Nephi 11:32-36). Jesus prays to the Father (3 Nephi 17:13-18; 19:19-34), is sent by the Father (3 Nephi 27:13), the Father introduces the Son (3 Nephi 11:3-7), the Father commands the Son (3 Nephi 15:16; 16:10), the Son like an advocate for the defense hold the righteous guiltless before his Father at the day of judgement (3 Nephi 27:16). Since the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are all described in the Book of Mormon as separate and distinct individuals, they constitute “one God” or divine government which is unified in purpose, will, doctrine and testimony.

Your turn

[teppe]

Yes .... We believe in the Godhead of The Father, Jesus Christ his son, and the Holy Ghost. We do not believe in the Nicene/Apostolic or Athenasian Creeds.

But as a Creed believer, yourself, .... you believe that God, Christ and the Holy Ghost are merely three ‘persona’ of one individual God.

Consequently, a Creed/Trinitarian Christian believes that Jesus Christ prayed to himself in the Garden of Gethsamane.

Also .... Trinitarians do not like the verse “God created Man in his own image”, since the Human equivalent of the Trinitarian God would be someone with a schizophrenia multiple personality disorder.

[Elsie]

We gentiles are agents of Satan, but you guys still believe in One GOD as your three witnesses have told as well as your Book of Mormon

You have to go to sleep at night with your own history nagging at you

Have a nice eternity on level 2

[teppe]

Sorry ....

I believe that Our Lord and Savior in Gethsemane prayed to Almighty God, the Father in Heaven.

Pure and Simple .... just like it says.

In order to believe in the Trinitarian Creeds .... Christ prayed to himself...............

........... I thought only Barak Obama did that!

[Elsie]

...Almighty God, the Father in Heaven.

What Level is he on again?

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Oh to be among the minority of Mormons who will finally get to be with the Father there.

To bad for the majority that will only look and say, "...if only..."

[teppe]

Level? Almighty God, is our Father in Heaven, whom all worship. Even the resurrected Jesus Christ, our Savior and the Holy Ghost worships God the Father, and will continue to do so with us for eternity.

There is no multiple personality schizophrenia Dietry level like you believe .... where Jesus Christ pretends to be praying to God but is really praying to himself.

[Elsie]

Level?

Yes; level.

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Are you worthy enough to live with the Father for eternity; or will you be on Level Two; with me??

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AFTERLIFE: The Mormon afterlife is divided up into four levels. From the lowest to the highest they are: hell, and then three levels of heaven: the telestial, the terrestrial, and the place where God dwells, the celestial (also called the kingdom of God). The celestial is also divided, the highest level being "exaltation," or becoming a God.

CELESTIAL KINGDOM: See Heaven.

EXALTATION: This is becoming a God in the highest level of the celestial kingdom.

HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

• Telestial - where unbelievers go
• Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church.
• Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church. What will the celestial heaven (kingdom) supposedly be like for a good Mormon? He will be a god, he will rule over a planet with his wives and spirit children.

[Elsie]

There is no multiple personality schizophrenia Dietry level like you believe...

What I 'believe' mattereth not.

What DOES have consequences is what three witnesses wrote:

 And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

 

 

An 1830 statement titled "Testimony of Three Witnesses"—one statement signed by three men rather than three separate statements—was published at the end of the first edition of the Book of Mormon.

[teppe]

Touche’ .... Elsie, actually that was a pretty good reply.

But, once again, the term ‘one’ is being used for ‘unity’ as Christ said in John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

If I can be ‘One’ with God and Christ .... just as Christ and God are ‘One’ ....

....then the Doctrine of the Trinity is ‘Mother of all Fake News!’

[Elsie]

If?

Sounds like a short version of: “Did GOD really say?

[Elsie]

....then the Doctrine of the Trinity is ‘Mother of all Fake News!’

Tell this to the Three witnesses.

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I wonder what level THEY ended up on?

Seems as there was a bit of controversy about them.

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Paul Harvey would say; "The REST of the story" of the three witnesses:

1. Most of the witnesses are related by blood. https://www.mormonstories.org/truth-claims/the-books/the-book-of-mormon/book-of-mormon-witnesses/
2. The three witnesses were all of questionable character
3. Joseph Smith said Dec 16, 1838, "Such characters as McLellin, John Witmer, David Witmer, Oliver Cowdry, and Martin Harris are too mean to mention; and we had liked to have forgotten them." History of the Church, Vol 3, p232
4. Brigham Young said, "Some of the Witnesses of the Book of Mormon, who handled the plates and conversed with the angels of God, were afterwards left to doubt and to disbelieve that they had ever seen an angel." (Journal of Discourses, Vol 7, page 164, 1859, Brigham Young.)
5. All three witnesses were eventually excommunicated from the Mormon church.
6. Two of the three witnesses who were excommunicated from the Mormon church later returned to the church after denying their testimony. Imagine if any one of the apostles denied their witness that Jesus rose from the dead, were kicked out of the early church, then returned again. Their testimony would be of no value. Remember that all three denied the Mormon faith at one point, and one never came back to the Mormon church going to his grave denying his testimony, yet Mormons still use his testimony for the book of Mormon. In fact, David Whitmer never returned to the LDS church that he was a witness for, but joined splinter groups that denied the original LDS church he was first a member of.

[teppe]

Can you be ‘One’ with God, just as Christ is ‘One’ with God?

Remember .... you believe in a mysterious 3-in-1; 1-in-3; God that mysteriously morphs into any combination of the various single or multiple identities instantaneoulsy ....

....are you also Schizophrenic?

Was Adam schizophrenic? .... since God created Man in the Image of God.

[teppe]

Yes, I believe the three witnesses.

And also, yes, I believe that God the Father, Christ his ‘begotten’ son, and the Holy Ghost are one in purpose, goals, vision, motivation .... but are completely separate beings.

News Flash: Jesus Christ mortal body had ‘DNA’. That DNA was comprised of 50% Mary and 50% God the Eternal Father.

[Elsie]

And also, yes, I believe that God the Father, Christ his ‘begotten’ son, and the Holy Ghost are one in purpose, goals, vision, motivation .... but are completely separate beings.

Therefore; three gods.

I see.

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Do you believe the Heavenly Mother is a GOD as well?

[teppe]

I’m sorry you don’t like the Bible. Everyone prays to God the Father .... even Jesus Christ.

Maybe your better off abandoning the Bible and embracing the Catholic Creeds instead.

[teppe]

Ever read the Bible and notice??? .... God the Father gets prayed to by Jesus Christ?

Jesus Christ does the will of the Father??

The Holy Ghost does the bidding of the Father??

Sounds to me like Almighty God, the Father, is the boss.

....not that co-equal, 1-in-3, 3-in-1, Emperor Constantine dictated/coerced non-biblical creed stuff that you believe in.

It is no wonder that God needed to restore his gospel again to the earth in 1820!

[Elsie]

Do you believe the Heavenly Mother is a GOD as well?

Could you PLEASE just answer a simple question instead of pontificating so much?

[Elsie]

...Emperor Constantine dictated/coerced non-biblical creed stuff that you believe in.

False Prophet Smith gave you all the non-biblical stuff YOU believe in.

[Elsie]

It is no wonder that God needed to restore his gospel again to the earth in 1820!

But if the BoM contained the 'Restored Gospel'; then why the need for all of the confusing and conflicting D&C's??

And Egyptian papyrus; too?

Give me a break!