Review of "Armies of Sand: . . . Arab Military Effectiveness" by Kenneth M. Pollack

self | 2019 | Kenneth M. Pollack

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Larry.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3742041/posts

[SunkenCiv]

One Arab scholar looked at the contributions made by Arab scientists in scientific journals. It came to 1% of the Israeli contribution. In 1973, when Arabs (based on population) should have had 8,000-14,000 papers in scientific journals, they had 847. "No matter what method was used to assess [Arab] productivity of scientific workers, the gap between what was actually produced and what was to be expected . . . was exceedingly large." There was a "notable absence of scientific contributions from Arab institutions." Israel registered 100 TIMES as many patents as Saudi Arabia. In the Arab world, a book that sold 5,000 copies was a best seller.

[catnipman]

also, regarding Arab “culture”, it’s been my personal experience that these people lie about everything all the time, that lying is a way of life with them, and that you basically can’t believe a single word any of them say to you ...

and this cultural lying accounts for all levels of the military command structure always lying about everything going up the reporting chain ...

[TigerHawk]

“...there will be no improvement in Arab militaries.”

GOOD! There’s some sort of problem with that?

[rbg81]

I agree with many of these points. From what I’ve seen, Arabs want to be managers and do not want to get their hands dirty.

I’ve run into numerous Arabs with a BS in computer science who cannot write computer programs. This is despite have those courses on their transcripts with good grades. Early on, when I questioned one about this paradox, he said that in class they TALKED about how to program, but did not actually WRITE working programs. I was stunned. That is like going to car mechanic school and only talking about how to do repairs.

I have also heard that Arab armies do not have the well developed NCO structure we have here in the West. Rather it is the junior officers who are supposed to perform the NCO function. But it does not work out that way. They give orders to the troops (e.g., set up camp) and then walk away and congregate with their officer buddies. There is a class difference between officer and enlisted and no good way to bridge that gap.

[Zhang Fei]

Arabs are cynics, not Germans - they’re not robots who obey whatever their leaders say. Arabs will fight to the death, but for their clans and families rather than the monarch or president-for-life of the moment. Sure - they’ll join the chorus of people uttering the empty slogan of the moment just to blend in. But when it comes to laying down their lives - that’s reserved for family and clan.

[okie 54]

Arab is synonymous with inept

[Gen.Blather]

“these people lie about everything”

Yep. I worked with many Arabs and can verify the lying. However, I worked for an Israeli defense company and sometimes the Israelis would compete to see who could get the most outrageous lie believed by one of our credulous Christians who, apparently, couldn’t believe anyone would lie. They thought getting him to believe lies was a hoot. (It annoyed me no end.) The Israelis would also lie to make others look bad and themselves look good. But, all in all, they didn’t lie as much or as widely as the Arabs I worked with. If it was something serious, they “generally” told the truth. Interestingly, I don’t think they lied to each other.

[Amberdawn]

Which explains why they’ll go around the world to murder Christians in the name of islam.

[Psalm 73]

All that, and add that they can't do aircraft maintenance or logistics, (or maintain any other technical systems) to save their lives.
More than pathetic.

[Zhang Fei]

[Which explains why they’ll go around the world to murder Christians in the name of islam.]

---

Suicidal religious zealots are an infinitesimal % of the ~2b Muslims on the planet. A few thousand kamikaze types are not representative of the entire population. That’s why most Middle Eastern regimes remain standing today - their troglodyte ISIS and al Qaeda-supporting Islamist populations don’t like them, but don’t particularly want to lose their lives engaging in the waves of suicide attacks that would actually topple those regimes. Their attitude to self-sacrifice can be boiled down to “you first”. Don’t get me wrong - if they could kill all non-Muslims with little risk, they would. But sacrifice their lives to do this? “You first”.

[BeauBo]

“The real culprit Pollack argues is Arab culture. There is a “constant pressure to conform [which] is a corresponding stifling of originality.” The culture “consistently suppresses creativity, innovation, imagination, and all similar divergences from established patterns of action and thought.” The culture favors centralization of authority and virtually all authority is centralized at the top”

That comes from living under the totalitarian dictatorship which is islam.

“Honor and shame” is more of a purely cultural characteristic.

[BeauBo]

“Arabs will fight to the death, but for their clans and families”

We saw that during the Gulf War, in the performance of the tribally organized Saudi Arabian National Guard units operating with their tribesman and relatives in defense of their home areas. Their combat effectiveness ratings were increased afterwards, as result of how they performed.

[BeauBo]

Thanks for your great synopsis of this study.

[Zhang Fei]

[Which explains why they’ll go around the world to murder Christians in the name of islam.]

---

And even among that tiny number (thousands, at most, if you lump every reported instance of sudden jihad syndrome in with 9/11) they’re not obeying what their leaders say - they’re responding to ancient religious edicts. The Crusaders, venturing into the literal wastelands (i.e. arid deserts) of the Middle East in significant numbers against overwhelming odds, at a time when the mere journey there was dangerous even without human enemies getting in the way, had a lot more of this self-sacrificial, kill-the-Muslim-infidel impulse than our current batch of all-talk, no-action Muslims. The Muslims here aren’t particularly moderate. But the vast majority are also personally not into long prison terms or the needle for mounting terror attacks, let alone suicide attacks. As I’ve written before - with regard to self-sacrifice for the cause, the attitude of most Muslims is “you first”.

[TigerHawk]

You are so right!

In my younger days I was in the Middle East, and had to deal with an Arab Sheik (just the head of a small clan) who had given me his word, and then broke it. The ultra macho culture that it is forced me to confront him on the matter, so I went to his camp (he was a Bedouin) alone, but armed. Now this is a very tricky sort of thing because it is considered an affront to enter a Bedouin camp armed, without the permission of the head man, but I was not going to give up my weapons.
This was resolved in my favor, and I was permitted to enter, and speak with the Sheik.
The first thing you look for in this situation is to be given food, or drink, so as to come under the Arabic laws of hospitality, so you know (or believe) that you are safe from harm. No food or drink, get up and leave because that’s a declaration that you are in mortal danger.
I was immediately offered food and drink. We exchanged pleasantries for a while, and finally I broached the subject in the most diplomatic manner I could manage.

“You said such and such to me, and it turned out not to be so. This was not good for me. I depended on your word. Why was it not upheld?”
He laughed. Very good naturedly actually, and asked me how old I was.
“I’m 38 years old. What does that matter?”
“TigerHawk, what would make a man 38 years old believe anything anyone says?”

I wanted to strangle him as he laughed! Because he’s right, isn’t he? THAT is Arab culture. THAT is how they deal with each other, and the world.
We innocent, foolish, Americans believe in such stupid concepts and phrases as “He’s a man of his word,” “You can take his word to the bank.” “He’s as good as his word.”
In OUR culture , once a man’s word is no good, once he’s proven a liar, he is held in contempt, and dishonor, and never trusted again. His word is no good. Arabs have absolutely NO CONCEPT of this, they lie to each other constantly, and govern themselves in all matters accordingly, and think us fools, and laugh at us.

We prove them right, time and again.

That was a great lesson he taught me.
I don’t hate Arabs individually, but I despise, loathe, and damn their culture to Hell.
And frankly, they can not be separated from that culture, so
I despise them as well.
They are NEVER to be trusted.

[marktwain]

Christianity and Judaism have the commandmant: Thou shalt not lie.

I do not think Islam has anything similar.

Mohammed was considered the man to emulate, and he lied all the time.

[DUMBGRUNT]

Your synopsis runs parallel to:
Spotting the Losers: Seven Signs of Non-Competitive States
1998 Ralph Peters
https://ssi.armywarcollege.edu/pubs/parameters/articles/98spring/peters.htm

Yes, I know that Peters went sideways, but this article is on the money.

The failure is greater where the avoidance of responsibility is greater. In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, oil money has masked cultural, social, technical, and structural failure for decades. While the military failure of the regional states has been obvious, consistent, and undeniable, the locals sense—even when they do not fully understand—their noncompetitive status in other spheres as well. It is hateful and disorienting to them. Only the twin blessings of Israel and the United States, upon whom Arabs and Persians can blame even their most egregious ineptitudes, enable a fly-specked pretense of cultural viability.

[PUGACHEV]

For many years in the ‘80s, I did criminal defense work, often court appointed, and lots of it. One of our favorite conversations was the different ways our clients lied to us. If from the middle east, the lies were intricate and always self serving. For an Asian client, the truth was wholly dependent on the necessities of the situation. That is, if no one could say what really happened, the truth depended on whose grandmother was ill and who needed the money or to stay out of trouble the most. Americans lied in a simple, dogish fashion, usually telegraphing their shame. The worst in my experience were the Filipinos who just lied in any way they wanted to without shame or malice.