“But more to your point, saying it was “all about” Southern self-determination”
Who said that? Surely you’re not deliberately misquoting me.
“is like claiming WWII was all about, say, Japanese self-determination.”
A truly ridiculous assertion.
“Indeed, the Japanese threat to the U.S. homeland was orders of magnitude less than Confederates.”
The intent of the Confederacy was to secede: that is, to withdraw from the United States, as was their right. Lincoln refused to allow that, which was the casus belli.
Japan, on the other hand, was engaged in a bloody war of conquest. There is no comparison, and I’m frankly disappointed to see that argument advanced on Free Republic.
“Consider this: “self-determination” also applied to Western Virginia, Eastern Tennessee, Northern Arkansas, Missouri, Kentucky, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Maryland, Pennsylvania and several other states which were, ahem, visited by Confederate armies.”
States? Lots of errors in that paragraph. Oklahoma and New Mexico were not states during the civil war. The southern states *voted* to secede. Thus, western Virginia and other regions of those states were not denied participation in democracy: they just lost the vote.
Before you start “ahemming” about Confederate armies, you might reflect that William Tecumseh Sherman would be tried for war crimes and hanged if he did today what he did during Lincoln’s war.
dsc: "Who said that?
Surely you’re not deliberately misquoting me."
You posted an HL Menken quote without comment, including:
dsc: "The intent of the Confederacy was to secede: that is, to withdraw from the United States, as was their right.
Lincoln refused to allow that, which was the casus belli.
Japan, on the other hand, was engaged in a bloody war of conquest.
There is no comparison, and I’m frankly disappointed to see that argument advanced on Free Republic."
Noooo. The causus beli was first, the Confederates' attack on Union troops in Union Fort Sumter and second, the Confederate Congress' formal declaration of war against the United States, May 6, 1861.
Further, what you like to call "secede" or "withdraw" is more accurately described as conquest and invasion of such states as Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, West Virginia and even Kansas, plus US territories of Oklahoma, New Mexico & Arizona, not to mention Confederate army invasions or raids into Pennsylvania, Ohio & Indiana.
Can you name for us even one state where a single Japanese soldier (let alone army) invaded, or raided, for even one day?
dsc: "States?
Lots of errors in that paragraph.
Oklahoma and New Mexico were not states during the civil war."
Which means Confederate invasions there had nothing to do with "self-determination", only with a bloody war of military conquest.
dsc: "The southern states *voted* to secede.
Thus, western Virginia and other regions of those states were not denied participation in democracy: they just lost the vote."
West Virginia also voted to secede.
By what law or logic do you hold Virginia's secession valid, but not West Virginia's?
By what logic was it A-OK for Confederates to send forces commanded by RE Lee into seceding West Virginia, but not for the Union to send forces into seceding Virginia?
dsc: "Before you start “ahemming” about Confederate armies, you might reflect that William Tecumseh Sherman would be tried for war crimes and hanged if he did today what he did during Lincoln’s war."
No more so than any number of Confederate generals who invaded Union states.
The burning of Chambersburg, PA, (three times: 1862, 1863 & 1864!) comes to mind, as does the Lawrence, Kansas, Massacre in August 1863).
Remember this: Confederate armies in Union regions always grabbed whatever black freedmen they could for return & sale in Confederate slave markets.
So who, exactly, was guilty of "war crimes"?