[otness_e]

"You will likely still be called an antisemite even if you provide an objective analysis,"

Yeah, well, guess what, it really doesn't matter if that's the case especially after it's been used up as much as the race card as far as I'm concerned, especially when there have been far too many instances where stuff like the ADL cry "anti-Semitism" when there really wasn't any (like The Passion of the Christ for example). It's sort of like how the Japanese act like they're innocent victims of the Atomic Bomb and ignore their war crimes during World War II. And quite frankly, that kind of thing is EXACTLY the reason why the Jewish people need to stop peddling anti-Semitism towards ANY form of criticism.

"Then how can you love the Jews if you do not seek their salvation. Which cannot be as under the law, since no one adheres strictly to it in word and spirit. "

I never SAID I wouldn't seek their salvation. Personally, I'd prefer their conversion to Christianity wholesale, but it needs to be a sincere one. And besides, like I said, at least they're FOLLOWING the written Torah, which is STILL what God himself wrote down, rather than following a complete... I'll be blunt, bastardization of the Old Testament. Trust me, getting rid of the Talmud is going to do the Jews a favor regarding salvation. At least getting rid of it doesn't make them effectively the same as Islam's Taqqiya. And quite frankly, the fact that I'm actually willing to spare Israel from destruction when I'm not even willing to do the same for the Middle East, not to mention opt for converting them instead of putting them into gas chambers should be a pretty big hint that I do ultimately care for the Jews.

"But documentation is needed? "

Fine, I'll give you documentation:

*http://talmudical.blogspot.com/

And just as an FYI, there's also videos of people from Israel, many of whom are Jewish, who exposed exactly what the Talmud teaches.

Also, here's a full listing of several quotes from the Talmud:

*http://rense.com/general92/talmud.htm

And for some specific ones:

*A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death, for it is written, Moses commanded us a law for an inheritance. - Sanhedrin 59a
*We beg Thee, O Lord, indict Thy wrath on the nations not believing in Thee, and not calling on Thy name. Let down Thy wrath on them and inflict them with Thy wrath. Drive them away in Thy wrath and crush them into pieces. Take away, O Lord, all bone from them. In a moment indict all disbelievers. Destroy in a moment all foes of Thy nation. Draw out with the root, disperse and ruin unworthy nations. Destroy them! Destroy them immediately, in this very moment! - Zohar, Toldoth Noah 63b
*When the Messiah comes, every Jew will have 2800 slaves. - Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D
*When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it. - Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156
*If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth. - Choschen Hamm 388, 15
*Happy will be the lost of Israel, whom the Holy One, blessed be He, has chosen from amongst the Goyim, of whom the Scriptures say: "Their work is but vanity, it is an illusion at which we must laugh; they will all perish when God visits them in His wrath." At the moment when the Holy One, blessed be He, will exterminate all the Goyim of the world, Israel alone will subsist, even as it is written: The Lord alone will appear great on that day! - Zohar, Vayshlah 177b
*That the Jewish nation is the only nation selected by God, while all the remaining ones are contemptible and hateful. That all property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which consequently is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews in general. A Jew may rob a Goy, he may cheat him over a bill, which should not be perceived by him, otherwise the name of God would become dishonoured. - Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat, 348
*If a goy killed a goy or a Jew he is responsible, but if a Jew killed a goy he is not responsible. - Tosefta, Aboda Zara, VIII, 5
*Has it not been taught: “With respect to robbery – if one stole or robbed or seized a beautiful woman, or committed similar offences, if these were perpetrated by one Cuthean [non-Jew] against another, what is taken must not be kept, and likewise the theft of an Israelite by a Cuthean, but that of a Cuthean by an Israelite may be retained?” - Sanhedrin 57a
*Everyone who sheds the blood of the impious [non-Jews] is as acceptable to God as he who offers a sacrifice to God. - Yalkut 245c
*Extermination of the Christians is a necessary sacrifice. - Zohar, Shemoth
*Even the best of the Goyim should be killed. (“Tob shebbe goyyim harog.”) - Soferim 15, rule 10
*Why then should we not leave female animals alone with female heathens? said Mar 'Ukba b. Hama: Because heathens frequent their neighbours' wives, and should one by chance not find her at home, and find the cattle there, he might use it immorally. You may also say that even if he should find her at home he might use the animal, as a Master has said: Heathens prefer the cattle of Israelites to their own wives, for R. Johanan said: When the serpent came unto Eve he infused filthy lust into her. - Avodah Zarah 22a-b
*All Israelites will have a part in the future world.... The Goyim, at the end of the world will be handed over to the angel Duma and sent down to hell. - Zohar, Shemoth, Toldoth Noah, Lekh-Lekha
*Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night. - Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L
*Everything a Jew needs for his church ritual no goy is permitted to manufacture, but only a Jew, because this must be manufactured by human beings and the Jew is not permitted to consider the goyim as human beings. - Schulchan Oruch, Orach Chaim 14, 20, 32, 33, 39
*A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat. - Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348
*A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl. - Gad. Shas. 2:2
*A male goy after nine years and one day old, and a girl after three years and one day old, are considered filthy. - Pereferkowicz, Talmud t.v., p. 11
*R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition [intercourse], and if her deceased husband's brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. - Sanhedrin 55b
*Raba said. It means this: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this [three years old], it is as if one puts the finger into the eye; but when a small boy has intercourse with a grown-up woman he makes her as 'a girl who is injured by a piece of wood.'... - Kethuboth 11b
*It was taught: Rabbi Judah used to say, A man is bound to say the following three blessings daily: "Blessed art thou … who hast not made me a heathen … who hast not made me a woman; and ... who hast not made me a brutish man. Rabbi Ahab Jacob once overheard his son saying “Blessed art thou ... who hast not made me a brutish man,” whereupon he said to him, “And this too!” Said the other, “Then what blessing should I say instead?” He replied ... “who hast not made me a slave.” “And is not that the same as a woman?” – “A slave is more contemptible.” - Menachoth 43b-44a
*Show no mercy to the Goyim. - Hilkkoth Akum X1
*A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean. - Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122
Source for quotes:
*http://researchlist.blogspot.com/2011/06/quotes-from-talmud.html

There's also this quote and where you can find it:

"Tanna of the beginning of the second century; a nephew of Ishmael b. Elisha. His inclination toward Hellenism and the Judæo-Christians contrasted with the attitude of his uncle, whom he once asked if he should study "Greek Wisdom," since he had finished the study of the Torah. The answer of Ishmael was: "Study the Torah day and night and 'Greek Wisdom' when it is neither day nor night." Ben Dama died of a snake's bite, and the following account is given of his last moments:

"Jacob of Kefar Sama (Sakonya), a Judæo-Christian, wanted to charm away the deadly effects of the bite by formulas in the name of Jesus; but Ishmael did not believe in such charms and would not allow him to come in. Just as Ben Dama essayed to prove to his uncle that there could be no objection to the cure from a Jewish standpoint, he died, and Ishmael exclaimed, "God has shown thee mercy in that thou didst depart in peace and didst not transgress the law of the sages" (Tosef., Ḥul. ii. 22, 23; 'Ab. Zarah 27b; Yer. 'Ab. Zarah ii. 40d).

"It is not improbable that Ben Dama's inclination toward the Judæo-Christians was the reason that nothing written by him was transmitted either by the Halakah or by the Haggadah, and that neither the Babylonian nor the Palestinian Talmud gives him the title "Rabbi." His title and full name have been preserved by the Tosefta (Ḥul. l.c.), which contains a halakic controversy between Ben Dama and Ishmael (Sheb." iii. 4)."

*http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2863-ben-dama

And here's some links and at least one commentary dealing with what the connection between Yeshua/Yeshu and Jesus are:

*http://www.v-a.com/bible/jesus.html

*https://askdrbrown.org/library/what-original-hebrew-name-jesus-and-it-true-name-jesus-really

"Consequently, centuries ago he was called by the name Yeshu, a “play” on His correct name that is actually an acronym standing for Yimmach Shemo Ve-zikro—May his name and memory be blotted out. He is still viewed that way by some, especially Ultra-Orthodox Jews"

*https://jewsforjesus.org/newsletter-mar-2008/y-shua-or-yeshu

*http://www.halakhah.com/gittin/gittin_57.html

And bear in mind, several of the sources I supplied came from actual practicing Jewish people.

"Sounds too much like,

The supreme power of the priestly office is the power of consecrating...Indeed, it is equal to that of Jesus Christ...When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man...Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary [who is said to be all but almighty herself]...The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest's command. - The Faith of Millions." The Credentials of the Catholic Religion, pp. 255-256 (Nihil obstat; Rev. Lawrence Gollner, Censor Librorum Imprimatur: Leo A. Pursley, Bishop of Fort Wayne-South Bend; March 16, 1974) "

If it's not either a Papal Bull (ie, a pronouncement made by the Pope WHILE he's on the seat of Peter), in the Bible, or in the Catechism, I see zero reason to count it as Church doctrine or Christian doctrine (heck, despite my loathing of Luther, I'm not sure I'd consider his private writings official Lutheran Church doctrine since they're, you know, private rather than manifestos disseminated to the public.). This is completely unlike the Talmud, which is pretty much the Jewish equivalent of the Bible in all but name.

[daniel1212]

"But documentation is needed? " Fine, I'll give you documentation: *http://talmudical.blogspot.com/ And just as an FYI, there's also videos of people from Israel, many of whom are Jewish, who exposed exactly what the Talmud teaches. Also, here's a full listing of several quotes from the Talmud: *http://rense.com/general92/talmud.htm And for some specific ones: *A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death, for it is written, Moses commanded us a law for an inheritance. - Sanhedrin 59a *We beg Thee, O Lord, indict Thy wrath on the nations not believing in Thee, and not calling on Thy name. Let down Thy wrath on them and inflict them with Thy wrath. Drive them away in Thy wrath and crush them into pieces. Take away, O Lord, all bone from them. In a moment indict all disbelievers. Destroy in a moment all foes of Thy nation. Draw out with the root, disperse and ruin unworthy nations. Destroy them! Destroy them immediately, in this very moment! - Zohar, Toldoth Noah 63b *When the Messiah comes, every Jew will have 2800 slaves. - Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D *When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it. - Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156 *If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth. - Choschen Hamm 388, 15 *Happy will be the lost of Israel, whom the Holy One, blessed be He, has chosen from amongst the Goyim, of whom the Scriptures say: "Their work is but vanity, it is an illusion at which we must laugh; they will all perish when God visits them in His wrath." At the moment when the Holy One, blessed be He, will exterminate all the Goyim of the world, Israel alone will subsist, even as it is written: The Lord alone will appear great on that day! - Zohar, Vayshlah 177b *That the Jewish nation is the only nation selected by God, while all the remaining ones are contemptible and hateful. That all property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which consequently is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews in general. A Jew may rob a Goy, he may cheat him over a bill, which should not be perceived by him, otherwise the name of God would become dishonoured. - Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat, 348 *If a goy killed a goy or a Jew he is responsible, but if a Jew killed a goy he is not responsible. - Tosefta, Aboda Zara, VIII, 5 *Has it not been taught: “With respect to robbery – if one stole or robbed or seized a beautiful woman, or committed similar offences, if these were perpetrated by one Cuthean [non-Jew] against another, what is taken must not be kept, and likewise the theft of an Israelite by a Cuthean, but that of a Cuthean by an Israelite may be retained?” - Sanhedrin 57a *Everyone who sheds the blood of the impious [non-Jews] is as acceptable to God as he who offers a sacrifice to God. - Yalkut 245c *Extermination of the Christians is a necessary sacrifice. - Zohar, Shemoth *Even the best of the Goyim should be killed. (“Tob shebbe goyyim harog.”) - Soferim 15, rule 10 *Why then should we not leave female animals alone with female heathens? said Mar 'Ukba b. Hama: Because heathens frequent their neighbours' wives, and should one by chance not find her at home, and find the cattle there, he might use it immorally. You may also say that even if he should find her at home he might use the animal, as a Master has said: Heathens prefer the cattle of Israelites to their own wives, for R. Johanan said: When the serpent came unto Eve he infused filthy lust into her. - Avodah Zarah 22a-b *All Israelites will have a part in the future world.... The Goyim, at the end of the world will be handed over to the angel Duma and sent down to hell. - Zohar, Shemoth, Toldoth Noah, Lekh-Lekha *Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night. - Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L *Everything a Jew needs for his church ritual no goy is permitted to manufacture, but only a Jew, because this must be manufactured by human beings and the Jew is not permitted to consider the goyim as human beings. - Schulchan Oruch, Orach Chaim 14, 20, 32, 33, 39 *A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat. - Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348 *A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl. - Gad. Shas. 2:2 *A male goy after nine years and one day old, and a girl after three years and one day old, are considered filthy. - Pereferkowicz, Talmud t.v., p. 11 *R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition [intercourse], and if her deceased husband's brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. - Sanhedrin 55b *Raba said. It means this: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this [three years old], it is as if one puts the finger into the eye; but when a small boy has intercourse with a grown-up woman he makes her as 'a girl who is injured by a piece of wood.'... - Kethuboth 11b *It was taught: Rabbi Judah used to say, A man is bound to say the following three blessings daily: "Blessed art thou … who hast not made me a heathen … who hast not made me a woman; and ... who hast not made me a brutish man. Rabbi Ahab Jacob once overheard his son saying “Blessed art thou ... who hast not made me a brutish man,” whereupon he said to him, “And this too!” Said the other, “Then what blessing should I say instead?” He replied ... “who hast not made me a slave.” “And is not that the same as a woman?” – “A slave is more contemptible.” - Menachoth 43b-44a *Show no mercy to the Goyim. - Hilkkoth Akum X1 *A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean. - Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122 Source for quotes: *http://researchlist.blogspot.com/2011/06/quotes-from-talmud.html There's also this quote and where you can find it: "Tanna of the beginning of the second century; a nephew of Ishmael b. Elisha. His inclination toward Hellenism and the Judæo-Christians contrasted with the attitude of his uncle, whom he once asked if he should study "Greek Wisdom," since he had finished the study of the Torah. The answer of Ishmael was: "Study the Torah day and night and 'Greek Wisdom' when it is neither day nor night." Ben Dama died of a snake's bite, and the following account is given of his last moments: "Jacob of Kefar Sama (Sakonya), a Judæo-Christian, wanted to charm away the deadly effects of the bite by formulas in the name of Jesus; but Ishmael did not believe in such charms and would not allow him to come in. Just as Ben Dama essayed to prove to his uncle that there could be no objection to the cure from a Jewish standpoint, he died, and Ishmael exclaimed, "God has shown thee mercy in that thou didst depart in peace and didst not transgress the law of the sages" (Tosef., Ḥul. ii. 22, 23; 'Ab. Zarah 27b; Yer. 'Ab. Zarah ii. 40d). "It is not improbable that Ben Dama's inclination toward the Judæo-Christians was the reason that nothing written by him was transmitted either by the Halakah or by the Haggadah, and that neither the Babylonian nor the Palestinian Talmud gives him the title "Rabbi." His title and full name have been preserved by the Tosefta (Ḥul. l.c.), which contains a halakic controversy between Ben Dama and Ishmael (Sheb." iii. 4)." *http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2863-ben-dama And here's some links and at least one commentary dealing with what the connection between Yeshua/Yeshu and Jesus are: *http://www.v-a.com/bible/jesus.html *https://askdrbrown.org/library/what-original-hebrew-name-jesus-and-it-true-name-jesus-really "Consequently, centuries ago he was called by the name Yeshu, a “play” on His correct name that is actually an acronym standing for Yimmach Shemo Ve-zikro—May his name and memory be blotted out. He is still viewed that way by some, especially Ultra-Orthodox Jews" *https://jewsforjesus.org/newsletter-mar-2008/y-shua-or-yeshu *http://www.halakhah.com/gittin/gittin_57.html And bear in mind, several of the sources I supplied came from actual practicing Jewish people.

Thanks for the info, from more than me most likely.

If it's not either a Papal Bull (ie, a pronouncement made by the Pope WHILE he's on the seat of Peter), in the Bible, or in the Catechism, I see zero reason to count it as Church doctrine

If you count all Papal Bulls as Church doctrine - which even most RCs do not do - then we have even more problems. Yet the stamps are sppsd to assure what they express.

[af_vet_1981]

Also, here's a full listing of several quotes from the Talmud:

Why are you posting from Jeff Rense? Antisemitism is a grave sin.

*http://rense.com/general92/talmud.htm

1. Recurring themes on Jeff Rense Program are a mistrust of the establishment and theorizing about who was behind the September 11 attacks. Regular guests include conspiracy theorists, geopolitical experts, and ufologists. Notable guests have included Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, The Political Cesspool's host James Edwards, paranormal expert Brad Steiger, the English former footballer and television presenter David Icke, South African journalist Jani Allan, Texe Marrs,[7] David Duke, and Harry Cooper,[8] who accompanies Ren">se on his annual Hitler's birthday celebration show every year in April.[9]
2. 
   The ADL's report found that "The Big Lie has united American far-right extremists and white supremacists and elements within the Arab and Muslim world". It asserted that many of the theories were modern manifestation of the 19th century Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which purported to map out a Jewish conspiracy for world domination.[127][128] The ADL has characterized the Jeff Rense website as carrying anti-Semitic materials, such as "American Jews staged the 9/11 terrorist attacks for their own financial gain and to induce the American people to endorse wars of aggression and genocide on the nations of the Middle East and the theft of their resources for the benefit of Israel".[129]
3. Jeff Rense is an Ashland, Oregon-based Internet and satellite radio host who maintains a virulently anti-Semitic Web site, Rense.com. His radio show promotes a wide variety of conspiracy theories, often focusing on extraterrestrial aliens but including a great deal of anti-Semitism expressed both by Rense's guests and Rense himself.
   
   Rense.com, which claims to receive over ten million hits a month, contains thousands of regularly updated links to articles and posts on the Internet, many of which focus on Jews, Zionism, and the state of Israel. For example, the site has featured posts entitled "Coming Zionist Police State" and "Zionist Jewish Talmudic Massacre of Palestinians." Rense.com has also posted at least one quote from The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, an anti-Semitic tract that claims that Jews are plotting to take over the world -- connecting it to a statement by former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
   
   Many of the posts on Rense.com link to some of the most virulent anti-Jewish writings on the Internet. For example, the site regularly links to RealJewNews, an anti-Semitic Web site run by Milton Kapner, a rabidly anti-Semitic street preacher who goes by the name Brother Nathanael and describes himself as a Jewish convert to Greek Orthodoxy. Rense.com has also linked to Judicial-Inc, which offers a regularly updated collection of articles accusing Jews of plotting every perceived ill in the world, from the mistreatment of Native Americans to the promulgation of pornography, to even being Jack the Ripper, a late 19th-century English serial killer. On its front page, Rense.com often features anti-Semitic images by the conspiratorial artist David Dees, including some that explicitly deny the Holocaust. The Web site also maintains an archive of Dees' images, many of which are explicitly anti-Semitic.
   
   In addition to its links to the Web sites of other anti-Semites, Rense.com posts original articles. Several praise Kevin MacDonald, the anti-Semitic California State University, Long Beach professor. Other articles argue that Judaism is an exclusivist "racial credo," and that American Jews staged the 9/11 terrorist attacks for their own financial gain and to induce the American people to "endorse wars of aggression and genocide on the nations of the Middle East and the theft of their resources for the benefit of Israel." Another article, produced exclusively for Rense.com, argues that Zionism is "the belief in the 'Jewish' state, the primary one being the United States, and of secondary significance, the state of Israel."
   
   A disclaimer on Rense.com denies official endorsement of any of these views, but Jeff Rense's assertions on the show make clear he is himself anti-Semitic. For example, during July 2007 broadcasts, Rense claimed, "A lot of Zionists were in the slave trade too. A tremendous Zionist/Jewish participation in that filthy business." He also alleged, "The Neocons are essentially servants of the Zionist/Jewish/ Rothschild cartel that is pushing the Middle East agenda," and referred to Zionists as "evil Satanists."
   
   Rense has also hosted overt anti-Semites on his radio show, including Ted Pike, an Oregon-based anti-Semite, who denied on the show that the Nazis had built the Auschwitz concentration camp or used it for the murder of Jews. In addition, Rense has offered a platform to Lyndon LaRouche, an anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist, and to Hector Carreon, the founder and editor of "La Voz de Aztlan," an anti-Semitic online publication.
   
   Prior to hosting his current radio show, "The Jeff Rense Program," Rense hosted "Sightings," an Internet radio show that focused on alleged human contact and sightings of extraterrestrial aliens. ("Sightings" was first known as "The End of The Line" and was broadcast on an AM channel out of Santa Barbara, California.) Before that, Rense claims to have worked for 12 years as a local television news director and anchor at various locations in California and Oregon. Rense.com first appeared in early 2000, when "Sightings" was renamed "The Jeff Rense Program."