Martin Luther: Definitely Not a Jew - The Protestant Reformation and Anti-Semitism

Tablet Magazine ^ | October 31, 2017 | Verónica Zaragovia

[daniel1212]

You must have nosebleeds from riding that high on your horse. You have spent more time harumphing about the infallibility your typo-ridden, incomprehensible post than it would have taken to simply write a clarification for us unworthies down here. Go fight a crusade why don't you, and please don't bother responding.

Meaning that having no manifest case for your charge of uncomprehensibility, and lack of anyone else to affirm the same, you must not only resort to more fallaciously charges, but ad hominem as well,

Moreover, speaking of clarification, if you had cared to specify what you found needing such, and which I did try t elicit from you, then you woiuld have received such.

But to show how easily it should be to comprehend my simple statement, I will add clarification i [brackets] where I suppose you need it:

You:

Why not just get a few of your friends together and go pull down a Luther statue somewhere instead of reintroducing the Catholic-Protestant hate wars here on FR? Just how far back does your particular tribalist outrage extend?

Note "reintroducing Catholic-Protestant hate wars" such as concerning Luther is the main issue. Thus,

Me:

I never saw it [Catholic-Protestant hate wars re. Luther] really cease, since Luther has often been invoked [by Catholics] as fueling anti-antisemitism here, though it [anti-antisemitism][ may be distinguished as ant[i]--Judaism.

Thus, by paying attention to context and subject you should have easily understood what was being conveyed. And if not, you should have explained what your need for clarification was, rather than your one line sarcastic, "Could you restate that in English?"

Instead, your final recourse was to make one (easily understood ) typo as "typo-ridden," before trying to escape having to explain yourself.

[Albion Wilde]

Too much, too late. Didn’t read it. Go away.

[af_vet_1981]

That argument does not attach any legitimacy to the rebellion. It remains without apostolic authority. The child who curses his mother as illegitimate, is pure in his own eyes, yet remains unwashed. It reminds me of the Samaritans and their re-formation, re-construction, and re-creation of their own religion. It is apparent that they were sincere, yet salvation is of the Jews.

[RegulatorCountry]

The nazis (I refuse to capitalize it) deliberately set out to co-opt and pervert the State Church of Germany. That it was Lutheran was beside the point, they wanted total control of the people and that included religion. They were not Christian, they despised Christianity. But, it was useful in controlling the populace.

Martin Luther’s venomous screed that nazis found so very useful did not arise in a vacuum, he was brought up in the Catholic Church, attended seminary, was a monk and was trained as a priest, indeed he was a professor of theology in a very Catholic world at that time. He certainly did not invent antisemitism as it existed and pogroms were occurring a thousand years before he ever set foot on this planet, before anyone had any concept of a Protestant Reformation. Luther was a reflection of his times in that regard.

These opinions were acquired from the Catholic Church, which was the State Church of his day, too many want to forget this. These facts do not exonerate him, wrong is wrong, but it also does not uniquely condemn just him and him alone, as so many Catholics are wont to do on this basis. Go look at contemporaneous writings on the same topic by Catholics of the day. They sound no different.

[Elsie]

I guess you told ME!

[Elsie]

If they can diss their own pope; what is stopping them from coming down on ANYONE?

[RegulatorCountry]

They’re doing the same thing Martin Luther did to an extent, but lack his bravery in being highly public and risking his reputation, his career, his livelihood and even his very life, they did try to kill him. But we still see the snide condemnations of the sins that he did commit, as if Catholics of his time didn’t hold the very same opinions.

[af_vet_1981]

Selected dates from A Reformation Timeline, I notice what they left out.


• 1483 -- Martin Luther born in Eisleben, November 10; baptized November 11
• 1517 -- Luther nails Ninety-Five Theses to Castle Church door in Wittenberg, October 31
• 1518 -- Luther appeals to General Council, refuses to recant
• 1520 -- Leo X issues papal bull Exsurge Domine, giving Luther sixty days to recant or be excommunicated, June 15
• 1520 Luther burns the papal bull and a copy of Canon Law, December 10
• 1521 Luther excommunicated by papal bull Decet Romanum Pontificem, January 3
• 1521 Luther appears before Diet of Worms and refuses to recant, April 17–18
• 1546 Luther dies at Eisleben, February 18

For the next 22 years he established his religion by teaching, writing, and preaching.

In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies, which included a 7 point plan that was precursor to the Holocaust. The first point was implemented throughout Nazi Germany on 9–10 November 1938 (Kristallnacht), in celebration of his birthday.

Thus, after rebellion, refusal to repent, and 22 years of re-formation, re-creation, and re-construction of his religion, he still hated those who were, at least, the least of the Messiah's brethren.



February 1, 1546.

To my dearly beloved housewife, Katherine Luther, owner of Zulsdorf and the Saumarket, and whatever else she may be. Grace and peace in Christ, and my old, poor (and as I am aware), weak love to thee! Dear Kathie, I became extremely weak when I was close to Eisleben, but it was my own fault. However, hadst thou been there, thou wouldst have said that either the Jews or their God were at the bottom of it. For we had to pass through a village close to Eisleben where many Jews lived, and perhaps they blew upon me, for there is no doubt that at the village a strong wind blew in at the back of the carriage, penetrating through my doctor’s hat, threatening to turn my brain into ice.

When the principal matters are arranged, I must endeavor to banish the Jews. Count Albrecht does not like them, and has tried to expose them, but as yet no one has meddled with them. If God will, I shall help Count Albrecht, and speak about them from this pulpit. I drink Naumburg beer, which you praised so highly at Mansfeld, and it agrees with me excellently.

Thy sons left Mansfeld the day before yesterday, as Hans von Jene seemed determined to have them with him. I do not know what they are about. If it is cold they may help us. But now that it is mild they must do or suffer what they will. I herewith commend you and all at home to God, and greet all the boarders. Vigilia purificationis.


... February 7, 1546.

To my dear wife, Katherine Luther, doctoress and self-tormentor at Wittenberg, my gracious lady. Grace and peace in the Lord!

Do thou read, dear Kathie, the Gospel of St. John and the little catechism of which you once said, “This book tells all about me”? For thou must needs assume the cares of thy God, as if He were not Almighty, and could not create ten Dr. Martins if the old one were suffocated in the Saale or in the stove, or . . . Leave me in peace with thy cares! I have a better Protector than thou and all the angels. He it is who lay in the manger and was fondled on a maiden’s breast, but was at the same time seated on the right hand of God, the Almighty Father. Therefore be at rest. Amen! I think that hell and the whole world must at present be free from devils, who, perhaps because of me, have all now gathered in Eisleben, to such a pass things seem to have come here. It is said that at Ritzdorf, close to Eisleben, where the wind blew so fiercely upon me, four hundred Jews walk and ride out and in. Count Albrecht, who owns all the land round Eisleben, has refused his protection to the Jews. There are often as many as fifty in one house here, as I wrote to you. Still no one will injure them. The Countess of Mansfeld, widow of Solms, is looked upon as their protector.

I do not know if all this be true, but I have given my opinion pretty freely on the subject today, whether it will help or not. Pray, pray, pray, and thus help us to right matters. Today I felt inclined to mount my carriage and set off, but my anxiety as to my Fatherland held me back. I have now become a lawyer (jurist ), but that will lead to nothing. It would have been better had they allowed me to remain a divine. If spared, I should like to appear among them as a hobgoblin, so that I, through the grace of God, might set bounds to their pride. They try to pose as God, but they would be wise to retreat in time before their Godhead is changed into a devil, as happened to Lucifer, who could not remain in heaven on account of his pride. Well, well, the will of the Lord be done! Let M. Philip read this letter, for I have not time to write to him, so you may comfort yourself that I love you dearly, since, as you know, I always write when I can, and he will understand this, having a wife himself.

We live well here, and the Council sends me for every meal about a hogshead of good Rhine wine. Sometimes I drink it with my friends. The Naumburg beer is also very good. The devil has ruined all the beer in the land with pitch, which causes the phlegm to accumulate in my breast, and with you he has destroyed the wine with brimstone. But here the wine is pure, except what is made in the district. And know that all the letters thou hast written have arrived, and today I have received those you wrote last Friday along with M. Philip’s, so that you may not be angry. Thy beloved lord, MARTIN LUTHER . (De Wette.) TO KATHERINE, LUTHER’


When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matthew, Catholic chapter twenty five, Protestant verses thirty one to forty six,

[RegulatorCountry]

The Catholic Church is as we speak being co-opted and intentionally perverted by the “nazis” of our time, just as the Lutheran Church was co-opted and intentionally perverted by the historical nazis, and all you can do is try to reinforce the bog standard, stock Roman Catholic condemnation of Martin Luther on the basis of antisemitism, as if Catholics of his day were not just as antisemite. Ridiculous. Mind your own store, it’s being robbed you know.

[daniel1212]

That argument does not attach any legitimacy to the rebellion. It remains without apostolic authority. The child who curses his mother as illegitimate, is pure in his own eyes, yet remains unwashed. It reminds me of the Samaritans and their re-formation, re-construction, and re-creation of their own religion. It is apparent that they were sincere, yet salvation is of the Jews.

Since the emperor has no clothes, for under the NT the spiritual validity of neither a true Jew or a true believer is based upon genealogical linkage, but upon Abrahamic faith (Matthew 3:9; Romans 8:28.29) and its attestation;

And thus the church began under in dissent from the historical magisterium, following itinerant preachers;

And seeing as Rome's so-called apostolic successors even fail of the qualifications and credentials of manifest Biblical apostles; (Acts 1:21,22; 1Cor. 9:1; Gal. 1:11,12; 2Cor. 6:1-0; 12:12)

And Catholic distinctives are not what is manifest in the only wholly inspired record of what the NT church believed (including how they understood the gospels)

Therefore, the argument based on claimed apostolic authority does not even attach any legitimacy to the rebellion of Rome, and in essence her claimed elitism and most manifest deformation curses its claimed mother as illegitimate, yet she is pure in his own eyes, yet remains unwashed. It reminds me of the Samaritans and their re-formation, re-construction, and re-creation of their own religion. It is apparent that they were sincere, yet salvation is of the Jews who believed in Christ, and the inspired record of whose church reproves Rome as illegitimate.

Thus there is no way Rome can lay claim to being the NT church on the basis of its inspired record. But her followers are too often will-fully blind to that, choosing instead to read Scripture thru the autocratic eyes of Rome. Meanwhile even the EO's reject some of Rome' traditions on the basis that they are not of tradition. he EOs

[daniel1212]

Too much, too late. Didn’t read it. Go away.

If you want to continue to avoid explaining your lack of comprehension and communication, even after clarification, then you are the one who needs to stop responding, and never should. For instead of being a sincere seeker, such responses marginalize you as one acting like a troll.

The end.

[Albion Wilde]

For instead of being a sincere seeker, such responses marginalize you as one acting like a troll.

You think you have the answers. Pride goeth before a fall.

[Elsie]

Pride goeth before a fall.

It sure does!

[daniel1212]

You think you have the answers. Pride goeth before a fall.

I see you are back for more correction, which in this case is abuse of Scripture. Defending the integrity of what one wrote need not be motivated out of pride, contrary to your attempted mind-reading, but in the interest of Truth.

However, reluctance to admit error is usually due to pride, and I can admit my original statement should have been clearer, but that it was incomprehensible in some way that you never cared to explain, and made false charges in response to, is the issue.

[DungeonMaster]

T.U.L.I.P.

[af_vet_1981]

Thus there is no way Rome can lay claim to being the NT church on the basis of its inspired record.

Unlike the Northern European faith communities that arose out of the rebellion, it is one church that can:

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses seven to eight ,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[daniel1212]

Unlike the Northern European faith communities that arose out of the rebellion, it is one church that can: To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

That is one of the most ludicrous assertions, for the faith is spoken of throughout the whole world is "the gospel of God" which Paul preaches, and now further expands here, in which Catholic distinctives are not manifest. In his letter to the Romans itself, there is

No pope, not even a mention of Peter though over 30 other persons are named (and thus not protected from persecution);

No ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility;

No Catholic Eucharist; No separate class of celibate sacerdotal priests;

No differentiation between bishops and elders,

No praying to created beings in Heaven;

No women who never sinned, and was a perpetual virgin, who would be bodily assumed to Heaven and crowned as its omnipotent (by grace) Queen, and object of prayer.

No infant baptism;

No gospel of salvation of becoming actually good enough inside to be with God;

No Purgatory;

No indulgences;

No separate class of believers called “saints,” who directly go to Heaven at death, while the rest go to purgatory.

No elevation of oral tradition as the transcendent substantive wholly inspired-of-God standard on Truth.

No church which manifestly treats even proabortion, prohomosexual pols as members in life and in death.

As for your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world being somehow unique to Rome, the same was true of the Thessalonians:

Thessalonians

Thus you proffered polemic crashes and burns.

Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. (Isaiah 1:5)

[af_vet_1981]

That is one of the most ludicrous assertions,

The Apostle Paul wrote that epistle to Church at Rome.

[T-Bone Texan]

Great post!

[daniel1212]

That is one of the most ludicrous assertions,

The Apostle Paul wrote that epistle to Church at Rome.

And? As patiently explained - both as regards the premise of linkage or Catholic distinctives - only to have the same premise repeated, that this somehow translates into the Church at Rome being the Roman Catholic church is what is ludicrous.

And repeating this manifestly untenable argument means you are wasting my time. Perhaps that was the goal. May God peradventure grant you "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." (2 Timothy 2:25) Bye.