Posted on 02/24/2018 11:08:44 AM PST by i_robot73
I have a Remington 700 in 308.
My range only goes to 200 yards and it works just fine. Practice a lot before you go. If you are not used to the kick it will take some practice.
Yeah, I kind of gave that away, huh? :)
Terrible choice!
Teenagers and NY governors agree that you can't hunt with an AR-15 with 30 rd clipz.
If you're leaning that way get an AR-10 with 50 rd clipz.
” ‘If an AR-15 can kill a 300 lb man it will kill a 125 lb deer.’
In most states that I am aware of it’s illegal to hunt game with anything less than 24 caliber.
.243 is the smallest that’s legal. .223/5.56mm is illegal to hunt with everywhere out west, for sure.” [Mariner, post 80, responding to fso301]
The last sentence is not the case.
A number of states permit the use of firearms based on kinetic energy at the muzzle, not bore diameter.
223 is only marginally legal for deer in South Dakota (min energy 1000 foot-pounds), and under the legal limit for elk (1500 foot-pounds). Both apply to rifles; handgun lower limit is 500 foot-pounds.
A few miles away in Wyoming, rifles for big game are regulated by bore size: 6mm (0.236 inch) or larger. Required for coyotes also. Specific limits can change abruptly; research carefully and know the details before venturing afield.
223 was developed as a military cartridge, to allow controllable full-auto fire from individual rifles. And at only half the weight per round compared to 7.62mm NATO, a troop could carry more ammunition. Decidedly marginal for most game larger than prairie dogs.
” ‘some states do not allow semi-automatic rifles.’
Is that right.?? I never heard of that....” [unread, post 94, responding to notthemomma]
Pennsylvania does not permit the use of semi-auto rifles. At least, that used to be the case. These things change.
PA’s primitive-arms season did not permit hunting with percussion-cap-fired rifles either; only flintlocks or earlier designs.
“If you go to .308 you will have access to plenty of cheap surplus ball or even the cheaper plastic rounds. ...” [Cold Heart, post 9]
Shooters are strongly advised not to fire 7.62mm NATO in US commercial rifles chambered for 308 Winchester. The tow cartridges are only nominally close in dimension, not completely interchangeable. Manufacturing tolerances for military ammunition differ from those for commercial cartridges; depending on country of origin, it is possible to encounter a 7.62mm round that is over maximum size for a commercial 308 rifle. Forcing the bolt closed on an over-max round can set off the primer, especially in an autoloading rifle where the the spring-powered counter-recoil movement can be violent. An out-of-battery ignition is an event to be avoided.
There are other risks.
Much commercial 308 ammunition is loaded to higher pressures and velocities than 7.62mm NATO; firing a 308 from a rifle chambered for the NATO round can result in damage, or reduced service life.
Typically, 7.62mm NATO bullets are fully jacketed and thus not permitted for hunting. A lot of surplus ammunition is loaded with steel-jacketed bullets; they are copper-clad and look no different, but can wear out a commercial rifle barrel more quickly.
The Mossberg MVP is specifically designed to fire both. The magazine is also interchangeable with NATO rifles.
Same for the .223/5.56 MVP
I hunt places that I could have 400 yd shots...but I don't take those. I'm only comfortable out to 200-250 yds. Especially if it's a real nice deer. I don't want to wing him...and have him run off and die...And I can't find him.
I had a nice .270...but sold it to a young man...that needed a good rifle.
I'd always wanted a lever action deer rifle..and I chose one in .308....
Never owned a 30-06..but that is just me.
I know guy's that have 7 Mag's...and .300 Win Mags....but I like my .308....
That's my 2 cents........
“Get a Mosin-Negant, ..., 7.62x54mm is about the same power as a 30-06, but is much cheaper—at around 50 cents a shot. It is also very widely available. ... about as sturdy and trouble free as possible too... ... loose tolerances—yet is still surprisingly accurate.
There are several variations ... you can even re-stock it with a civilian style stock ... a common rifle ...”
Russian/Soviet surplus rifles of the vintovka o1891g pattern are indeed inexpensive, stout, and often surprisingly accurate. A decent choice, provided one already has an adequate hunting rifle. Recall that they are used items; the next one coming along may be pristine, or may be badly worn.
But the Mosin-Nagants are not readily modified to accept a scope. Some “no gunsmithing required” scope mounts are marketed, but rarely do they live up to the promise. The trigger is downright miserable, though aftermarket replacements are now available. Stocks of more modern configuration are available too, many of synthetic manufacture.
Getting all the changes made can run into a fair amount of cash, defeating the objective of equipping with an inexpensive rifle in a hurry.
The greatest limitation is the lack of spare parts. These rifles were imported without replacement parts support. And be very wary of swapping in parts from other rifles: Soviet military arms were not built to the same standards of interchangeability that has been the hallmark of US military long arms since the 1840s.
Inexpensive surplus ammunition is widely available right now, but politics can dry up imports in an eyeblink. The availability of new-made sporting (soft point) ammunition is good, with quality civilian-legal offerings from Norma, Prvi Partizan, and even Winchester. But it’s not any less costly than non-premium loadings of US commercial chamberings, and is less widely sold, in relation. Walk into any hardware store in a tiny mountain town in hunting country, and 30-30 (or 308 or 270) will be on their shelves. 7.62x54Rmm will be a much tougher proposition.
“The Mossberg MVP is specifically designed to fire both. The magazine is also interchangeable with NATO rifles. ...”
O.F. Mossberg has become a leader in bringing good-quality rifles to buyers at moderate cost. Along with Savage, they are giving higher-end gunmakers some stiff competition.
There is no STANAG for 7.62mm NATO rifles - unlike 5.56mm, where M16-pattern magazines have become the preferred configuration. Despite what Mossberg claims on its website, there is no “standard” AR10-style magazine out there; three or more types exist. See 308ar.com.
1/2” less receiver counts on long marches.
Leupold. Waterproof, fog proof. You’ll buy $80 scopes every other year, or a Leupold once for $200...that’s lower end.
I think apA just recently allowed them. Surprised me, too. Bu, I learned (on this thread) that TN has shotgun only in low light hours. Lots of rules.
You’ll shoot your eye out.
Yes and no.
A tumbling .223 can produce a wide wound channel resulting in rapid bleed out.
My understanding is the amount of tumbling depends primarily upon distance and barrel twist rate. A slower twist rate results in a less stable bullet more prone to tumble that is less accurate at longer ranges.
Higher twist rates produce more stable bullets accurate at longer distances that tend to produce narrow wound channels at distances under 100yds due to lack of tumbling.
The Finnish Mosins all have Russian-made receivers, the stocks and barrels are Finnish-made. I say “Russian” as the Mosin-Nagant was a Czarist-era design, going back to the early 1890s—and many of the M/39 guns have pre-revolutionary receivers.
The Finns defeated Stalin’s troops in the Winter war of the late 1930s. In doing so, they were able to seize hundreds of thousands of Russian rifles. They didn’t like the barrels & stocks, but the receivers were solid, so they rebuilt the rifles to their own specs.
First thing I did with my Mosins....is put on butt pads. Yes they do kick, but with a 1/2 inch rubber butt pad, and shouldering it correctly....works just fine.
Personally you’ve asked to generic a question. Where are you located? What do you intend to hunt? How much experience do you have with weapons?
.308 cal and 30-06 are great universal calibers and as previously mentioned the 30.06 may be a bit too much of a gun. Remington, Winchester, Marlin, Ruger and Mossberg all manufacture outstanding rifles. Then again there’s also Kimber and Weatherby if you can handle the cost.
Optics are another thing, but I prefer Leupold scopes
Don’t leave the 30-30 off the list
I have no doubt about the science behind your post but you have also admit to mine. Yes it can kill a deer but is not as sure as others on the market
A round from a 30-30 or 30-06 is a more “sure shot” and most states are prohibitive of the hunting use of the .223 in regard of big game.
Anyhow, I won’t be using an AR-15 in any of my future hunting seasons and I stand by my advice to any novice hunters who seek information on hunting big game.
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