Posted on 02/13/2018 2:26:53 PM PST by Leaning Right
This lady I know opened up a sandwich shop recently. She sunk her life savings into it. The location she picked wasn't bad. It was in a strip mall that had a pizza parlor, but no other food establishment.
Here's the problem. Shortly after she opened, an inspector came in and told her she must remove all her customer tables! It seems there's some law that says new restaurants without a handicapped accessible restroom cannot have tables. So she removed her tables, and her business has dropped off dramatically.
“As a professional sports photographer I had to carry $1 million in liability insurance.”
I got a $1M umbrella policy just because one of my mother’s elderly friends fell down a lot, and didn’t want to get sued in case she hurt herself on my property.
When I sold my house and rented for a while, same insurance company required me to have $300k of liability on the renter’s insurance in addition to the umbrella policy.
My state has a size exception. Restaurants with occupnancy/seating <15 can have a single bathroom. And the health code doesn’t say squat about ADA compliance.
This is why it’s really important to not let inspectors swan in and tell you things without providing documentation of the applicable code. They may be making stuff up or flat overreaching their authority. The health inspector doesn’t get to enforce the building code.
If she got all the applicable permits, why was it never mentioned during the permitting process? She needs to make sure that the “inspector” was legitimate, code violations come with paperwork. They have to document what is wrong and how it is to be corrected and by what date (because they have to come back and check)
Seriously, it could have been a contractor trolling for work or the pizza place engaging in a little competitive thuggery.
ADA says you need a 5’ diameter turning radius...
impossible in many old bathrooms.
I didn’t find the rule that says toilet paper depensers must be at the level of the toilet seat. THAT is the practice that irritates me: contractor who can’t be reasonable in the regular stalls.
My old job was reviewing plans for compliance with ADAAG. I know there have been some changes since then but the basics still apply. I still here in my sleep “Alteration Affecting Primary Function Areas” and “Disproportionate cost exceeding 20%”
My state has a size exception. Restaurants with occupnancy/seating <15 can have a single bathroom. And the health code doesn’t say squat about ADA compliance.
This is why it’s really important to not let inspectors swan in and tell you things without providing documentation of the applicable code. They may be making stuff up or flat overreaching their authority. The health inspector doesn’t get to enforce the building code.
If she got all the applicable permits, why was it never mentioned during the permitting process? She needs to make sure that the “inspector” was legitimate, code violations come with paperwork. They have to document what is wrong and how it is to be corrected and by what date (because they have to come back and check)
Seriously, it could have been a contractor trolling for work or the pizza place engaging in a little competitive thuggery.
my bad ive been hanging around humblegunner’s threads. it kinda rubbed off on me..
After the Americans with Disabilities Act passed, handicapped employment went down.
THATS IT! Gull dang! Thats the best roast beef sandwich I EVER had. Still open?
Funny thing about the AwDa is that the US paper currency is one of few in the world that can’t be handled by the blind. The us government has been clearly in violation.
AS USUAL
She should get a roach coach. There is a small higher end restaurant in our town that had to vacate their premises because of highway construction. They set up a roach coach and made more money there then they did at the previous location.
Why would a health code read squat about ADA? But both codes must be complied with before a c/o is issued. Someone suggested expanding two bathrooms into one. I pointed out that the plumbing code does require separate bathrooms in food service establishments. So that suggested solution to meeting ADA may put her bump up against another code. She has to meet both. Local jurisdictions may adopt changes such as yours did. But not all of them do.
The requirements for construction were very likely clearly put on any plan review for the person who pulled the permit. The restaurant seating should have been on the plans if it was fixed seating.
An inspector does not have to do a punch list for contractors. They can simply cite the code violation without going into detail. They sure as heck do not have to tell a contractor how it must be fixed. They fix it to meet the code. Plan reviews will have more detailed corrections.
In NYC there is a limit to the number of tables you can have without a restroom. Pizza places often don’t have one.
Any FR restaurateur or lawyer see a way out for her?
_____________________
It would appear the regulation is unreasonable, arbitrary, and capricious. What have tables got to do with whether you have a handicap restroom?
My first thought....
> No location given, and no link for missing information. <
True enough. I did that for (good) reasons of my own. I know that this puts somewhat of a burden on the readers here. But, of course, a reader is then free not to respond.
But I do thank those who did offer suggestions.
No, I was usually one of those guys under the basket, sitting on their ass catching the guys as they got hacked on their way up to dunk.
I had one guy break away, slam dunk it, and misjudge the rim. He grabbed it and his feet kept going. His feet landed on my lap with his head about two feet from my feet.
He broke my remote control that triggered the flashes. Almost broke my legs. And he knocked himself out for a few seconds.
When he came to, he asked me if it looked good.
Kids are resilient.
But the insurance was more for liability for injury and because I had to wire my lights. 1600 Watt light banks will sometimes “pop” and smoke, or I had one or two just melt down. They wouldn’t catch fire, but it scared the shit out of the Athletic Directors.
Isnt the ADA a federal thing?
Any time I was involved with building an office I always used an architect. It was worth the money to make sure you complied with all of that stuff. Plus the general contractor was on the hook for building stuff to code.
And the other lesson is that you never, ever, go into business like that with your own money. Even if you have it, get a bank loan against personal collateral. That way when you go belly up, you lose their money—not yours.
And if she had just moved into and existing occupancy and not made any changes she would have been o.k. Even then alterations don’t trigger every requirement of the ADA. An alteration to the primary function area triggers a priority of ADA requirements, those include providing handicap bathroom(s). Even then changes that are disproportionate to the overall alteration are not required. Changes that exceed 20% are considered disproportionate. So she would be required to make as many changes as possible without going over the 20%. Those changes in order of priority are entrance, path of travel to the primary function area, restroom/bathroom, ...
So if there is an existing bathroom and it would cost her more than 20% of the overall alteration to expand it that would not be required. Instead if the entrance is o.k. and the route to the dining area are ok. she might install grab bars. Provide a handicap accessible sink and water closet. Install an accessible door and if necessary widen the entrance to the bathroom. Now here is the rub.
It could be that a local ordinance has stricter requirements and makes it so changes to the primary function area triggers stricter compliance with ADA. For instance altering the entire bathroom space not just fixtures.
The good news is that if the requirement is that she provide a fully accessible bathroom (as in new construction) there should be a means to request a variance or exception. Again this is for local ordinances.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.