Jack Morris, Alan Trammell Voted Into Baseball Hall Of Fame

MLB Trade Rumors ^ | December 10, 2017 | By Mark Polishuk

[jjotto]

The pattern was set by Yankees fans. Other teams began demanding and getting their own second-tier all-time players in the HOF too.

[newfreep]

It’s become the Hall of Very Good to Above Average...certainly not “Great” anymore...

[rbmillerjr]

Good analysis on Chipper Jones and Trammel.

The problem is that Baseball is position oriented.

Trammel was a middle infielder for the bulk of his career, so Trammel’s numbers look excellent from middle infield.

Chipper Jones, was a corner infielder which is a power position.

That’s the difference.

[DFG]

Allan Trammel and Lou Whitaker on "Magnum PI": https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=Oc_yETYratI

[jjotto]

The difference is that Jones isn’t eligible for the HOF until 2018.

[csvset]

The Braves won only one World Series during that span. It was fun watching the Braves ultimately go down in defeat again and again. Jones will get in .

[kenmcg]

Just one man’s opinion, the baseball Hall of Fame is a farce. It is controlled by a bunch of jock sniffing sports writers. One only has to look at the vast numbers of great players who weren’t polite with writers and players who ddn’t reflect lifestyle standards, that have been kept out.

[rbmillerjr]

Sure.

But the post was in response to a comparison between a SS and a 3B...position and defense matter.

[Hyman Roth]

Don’t forget also that Mantle held on longer than he should have . . .

Imagine what Mantle could have done if he wasn't drunk or hung over during the games.

[TBP]

The Modern Era Committee is largely former players, managers, and executives. Morris and Trammell were put in the Hall of Fame by guys who played against them.

[Redwood71]

“Falling an eyelash or two below .300 does not lessen Mantle’s achievements overall”

Didn’t say it did. But when you compare players of different position, I feel too much is determined by the opinion of the notoriety of the player and not the achievements. And you said it yourself, the “magic” .300. Another stat that is part of the show is stolen bases. Mantle was blessed by the media with having great speed. He did. Jones was not noticed. Mantle stole 153 career while Jones stole 158. Not much difference, but Mantle was the super star and Jones wasn’t.

Mantle’s job was not to steal bases. He was there to hit home runs in that short porch in both fields with a short fence. That helped a lot. But my point becomes obvious in that you can compare Jones as being comperable with Mantle. But you can’t say he isn’t better and more deserving than Trammell. So it tarnishes the award for me as it was given in my mind as a gift to him and not as deserved. And I like Trammel and thought he was a great player. But not as good as others.

rwood

[AppyPappy]

Really. How does Dave Parker not get in?

[Enchante]

We mainly agree, I would certainly place Chipper Jones above Morris and Trammell, although ofc it is not easy to make comparisons across different positions. I was only responding to your statement that seemed to place Chipper Jones as a hitter on a level above Mickey Mantle:

"[Jones] is recognized as the best switch hitter ever as he is only one of the three to hit over 400 home runs and have a lifetime average over .300. Mickey Mantle and Eddie Murray are the other two."

I was merely saying that I think Mantle has a number of points in his favor for this debate about "best switch-hitter ever" even though his lifetime average dipped slightly to .298 Mantle had 5-6 years of lesser productivity (due to injuries and not taking care of himself, perhaps) toward the end of his career, but his most prime 10+ years were rather extraordinary. Of course it was pumped by the NY and national media, but also by the fact that he achieved so much in the post-season (Chipper Jones did not have too much productivity in his World Series appearances).

Also, I would not leave Pete Rose entirely out of that "best switch-hitter" debate, simply for having 4,256 career hits and quite a few seasons of 200+ hits and/or .330+ batting average. I realize that Rose didn't have the power, and that his vast hits total was reached in part due to longevity, but he had many stellar batting seasons and I for one don't think it's easy to exclude Rose from a discussion of "best switch-hitter ever."

[Vigilanteman]

Imagine how many home runs the Babe would’ve hit if he hadn’t spent the first quarter of his career as a pitcher. He liked his beer and hot dogs, too!

[dfwgator]

Imagine how many home runs the Babe would’ve hit if he hadn’t spent the first quarter of his career as a pitcher. He liked his beer and hot dogs, too!

He would have hit a lot more home runs if only he'd cut down on the smoking, the drinking and sex, especially between innings.

[Mears]

“He would have hit a lot more home runs if only he’d cut down on the smoking, the drinking and sex, especially between innings. “

—

And why on earth would he bother giving up those things-——he did pretty well while doing them.

.

[RinaseaofDs]

How did Morris not make it before? 172 CGs?

[fhayek]

I’ll go one better. Mickey Mantle was the greatest PLAYER ever. Take a ten year period of a player’s career (their prime, if you will), and I defy you to show me a better output than Mantle from 1952 to 1962.

[Redwood71]

Without a doubt, Mantle’s tools were the best I ever saw, switch hitter or not. He had speed and power, but his job was not to hit singles. And when he stepped on the sprinkler head in the outfield and took out his legs, he condemned himself to being a great player rather than the best.

His bouts with alcohol with Martin, Ford, and various others, were a lot said into his failing as a player as in his book he admitted to being tanked on the field a few times. He was his own worst enemy.

Now for Rose: his work was totally different from Mantle, Jones, or Murray. I’m sure with his compact size, he could have gone deep a lot more. But his job was to set the table, not clear it. And I don’t think I’m talking to a deaf ear here when I admit to you that you are right, it is impossible to rate one player over another that doesn’t do the same job. But when the comparable numbers don’t match, that’s where I have my problems with the process.

rwood