Allan Trammel and Lou Whitaker on "Magnum PI": https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=Oc_yETYratI
Posted on 12/10/2017 8:29:02 PM PST by TBP
Jack Morris and Alan Trammell were both elected to the Baseball Hall Of Fame today, as announced on the MLB Network. The two longtime Tigers greats were voted in via the HOF’s Modern Baseball Era Committee, who weighed the cases of Morris, Trammell and eight others who weren’t originally selected in the traditional writers’ vote. (MLB.com’s Barry M. Bloom has the details on the Modern Era Committee’s composition and process.)
Both Morris and Trammell went the full 15 years on the Baseball Writers’ Association Of America ballot without getting the necessary 75% of the vote necessary for election. Still, both players (as well as the others on the Modern Era Committee’s ballot) had their share of supporters who felt that the duo was long overdue to be enshrined in the Hall of Fame.
Morris won 254 games over his 18-year career, with 14 of those seasons coming in Detroit. While advanced metrics weren’t always keen on Morris’ work, he was a prototypical old-school workhorse, tossing complete games in 175 of his 527 career starts. His most famous outing, in fact, was a complete game on the sport’s biggest stage — Morris tossed 10 shutout innings in Game Seven of the 1991 World Series to help lead the Twins to the championship. That was one of four World Series rings Morris earned during his career, while posting a 3.90 ERA and 2478 strikeouts over his 3824 career innings.
Trammell spent all 20 seasons of his career in Detroit, highlighted by his World Series MVP performance in the Tigers’ championship season in 1984. Trammell hit .285/.352/.415 with 185 homers over 9376 career plate appearances, with six All-Star appearances, four Gold Gloves and three Silver Slugger Awards to his credit. Despite this impressive resume, Trammell’s overall steady play may have actually led to his being underrated in comparison to star shortstops of his era (as recently argued by MLB.com’s Joe Posnanski), hence his long wait for Cooperstown.
The Modern Era Committee focused on names from 1970-87, with other candidates including union leader Marvin Miller and former star players Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons, and Luis Tiant. Simmons came closest to induction, falling just a single vote shy of the 12-vote threshold. Miller was the next-highest candidate, earning seven of 16 votes.
The pattern was set by Yankees fans. Other teams began demanding and getting their own second-tier all-time players in the HOF too.
It’s become the Hall of Very Good to Above Average...certainly not “Great” anymore...
Good analysis on Chipper Jones and Trammel.
The problem is that Baseball is position oriented.
Trammel was a middle infielder for the bulk of his career, so Trammel’s numbers look excellent from middle infield.
Chipper Jones, was a corner infielder which is a power position.
That’s the difference.
Allan Trammel and Lou Whitaker on "Magnum PI": https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=Oc_yETYratI
The difference is that Jones isn’t eligible for the HOF until 2018.
The Braves won only one World Series during that span. It was fun watching the Braves ultimately go down in defeat again and again. Jones will get in .
Just one man’s opinion, the baseball Hall of Fame is a farce. It is controlled by a bunch of jock sniffing sports writers. One only has to look at the vast numbers of great players who weren’t polite with writers and players who ddn’t reflect lifestyle standards, that have been kept out.
Sure.
But the post was in response to a comparison between a SS and a 3B...position and defense matter.
Imagine what Mantle could have done if he wasn't drunk or hung over during the games.
The Modern Era Committee is largely former players, managers, and executives. Morris and Trammell were put in the Hall of Fame by guys who played against them.
“Falling an eyelash or two below .300 does not lessen Mantle’s achievements overall”
Didn’t say it did. But when you compare players of different position, I feel too much is determined by the opinion of the notoriety of the player and not the achievements. And you said it yourself, the “magic” .300. Another stat that is part of the show is stolen bases. Mantle was blessed by the media with having great speed. He did. Jones was not noticed. Mantle stole 153 career while Jones stole 158. Not much difference, but Mantle was the super star and Jones wasn’t.
Mantle’s job was not to steal bases. He was there to hit home runs in that short porch in both fields with a short fence. That helped a lot. But my point becomes obvious in that you can compare Jones as being comperable with Mantle. But you can’t say he isn’t better and more deserving than Trammell. So it tarnishes the award for me as it was given in my mind as a gift to him and not as deserved. And I like Trammel and thought he was a great player. But not as good as others.
rwood
Really. How does Dave Parker not get in?
Imagine how many home runs the Babe would’ve hit if he hadn’t spent the first quarter of his career as a pitcher. He liked his beer and hot dogs, too!
He would have hit a lot more home runs if only he'd cut down on the smoking, the drinking and sex, especially between innings.
“He would have hit a lot more home runs if only he’d cut down on the smoking, the drinking and sex, especially between innings. “
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And why on earth would he bother giving up those things-——he did pretty well while doing them.
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How did Morris not make it before? 172 CGs?
I’ll go one better. Mickey Mantle was the greatest PLAYER ever. Take a ten year period of a player’s career (their prime, if you will), and I defy you to show me a better output than Mantle from 1952 to 1962.
Without a doubt, Mantle’s tools were the best I ever saw, switch hitter or not. He had speed and power, but his job was not to hit singles. And when he stepped on the sprinkler head in the outfield and took out his legs, he condemned himself to being a great player rather than the best.
His bouts with alcohol with Martin, Ford, and various others, were a lot said into his failing as a player as in his book he admitted to being tanked on the field a few times. He was his own worst enemy.
Now for Rose: his work was totally different from Mantle, Jones, or Murray. I’m sure with his compact size, he could have gone deep a lot more. But his job was to set the table, not clear it. And I don’t think I’m talking to a deaf ear here when I admit to you that you are right, it is impossible to rate one player over another that doesn’t do the same job. But when the comparable numbers don’t match, that’s where I have my problems with the process.
rwood
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