Expensive Bacon

Reuters ^ | JULY 18, 2017 | Ankit Ajmera

[Garth Tater]

I've seen the results at the track dude. 50 hp is a motorized bicycle. Or are you riding the 883 with 46 hp? Sure, you can get the front wheel off the ground in first gear if you put enough teeth on the rear sprocket - but then you top out at 102 mph /* snicker */ That ain't even close to a fast ride. But you think half of the "experts" on this thread couldn't handle your ride. Buddy, you have delusions of grandeur.

And coming from a "engineer" (note the quotes) that thinks the actual equation relating horsepower to torque is just a bunch of hooey I don't think you have much credibility. I hope you take math and physics a little more seriously in your jet engine work. LOL

Harley riders on their speed machines! Seriously, you never see them after the first turn.

[OftheOhio]

There’s a whole lot more to that torque horsepower relationship than your simplistic equation in post #30 though and you know it, especially dealing with engines. No observations about the flat track comment I made though or the article I posted for your benefit. The article as I pointed out blows your argument and credibility out the window. Everything else is just misdirection on your part. I’ve been riding since 1971. I quite frankly don’t give a fig what you ride. I’ve ridden some 15 different bikes over the years. I’m not easily impressed with BS.

[Garth Tater]

There’s a whole lot more to that torque horsepower relationship than your simplistic equation in post #30 though and you know it,

No. There isn't. There are design constraints that dictate how and at what RPM you generate your torque but the equation states the complete and total relationship between horsepower and torque. You're not really an engineer, are you?

No observations about the flat track comment I made

Harleys may dominate some of the smaller classes on the track but I've yet to see one out there winning any of the unlimited road events. You know, where the fast machines go to compete.    50 hp is 50 hp dude. You just aren't riding a fast bike and you ought to just admit it. And your comment about half the "experts" (your quotes) on this thread not being able to handle your under powered ride was seriously funny.

The article as I pointed out blows your argument and credibility out the window.

You didn't link the article and you haven't pointed out a single error I've made in my description of how horsepower and torque are related to each other and how design constraints determine the shape of the torque curve and where the maximum torque is generated and why that makes the gearing so important. Tell me again how many gears that Harley has. Four, was it? That kind of limits your use of the power band by about 20% compared to a 5 gear machine, doesn't it? These factors along with the HP/Torque equation I gave you determine how fast your machine will go. I've yet to hear a detailed explanation from you of how your 50 hp dog is a speed demon because it's got "torque."

We don't even need to go into your bikes antiquated suspension that was out-of-date at the time it was made back in '86, do we? And you want to talk about the posters on this thread not even knowing what counter steering in a curve is? Have you ever ridden a crouch rocket with a modern suspension? And you do know that it's horsepower that allows you to power through a turn by generating a force in opposition the the centripetal force caused by the turning motion, don't you? 50 hp kind of limits that opposing force, doesn't it. When you come sling shotting out of the turn with that under powered machine it must be like being on the end of rubber band. LOL

I’ve ridden some 15 different bikes over the years.

So if you know a bit about motorcycles, why did you end up riding an under powered 50 hp turkey?

I’m not easily impressed with BS.

Yeah, I can see how the refutation of your my bike will "jerk a knot in your *ss" comment would bother you. That was one of the biggest loads of crap I've seen posted in quite awhile. Care to post the quarter mile standing start times for that "jerk a knot in your ass" machine you ride? That would be a little embarrassing, wouldn't it?

"Jerk a knot in your ass" Jeez, that was a good one. Gonna be telling that one over beers for a long time to come.

[OftheOhio]

You want to know what’s really funny, you couldn’t find the article I referenced in post#36.”Torque engines make lots of torque low in the rpm band while horsepower engines make gobs of torque on the top-end.” The diifference is night and day in what we’re talking here. Street machines or racing machines. The example I gave of the HD that did the Drag launch (no wheelie bar) at the stoplight is a far cry different machine than the road racer you are talking about. I guess you missed the part too where I said “best” handling bike I’ve ever ridden. Reminds me of the early SL350 Honda bike that I owned, one that was used often in the circuses during it’s era because of it’s perfect rake and trail. It was positively scary to ride certain street ricers of that day, purely straight line machines for the most part. As far as the rest of your screed here, it’s just more BS and misdirection and no longer worth my time. Your quote “And you want to talk about the posters on this thread not even knowing what counter steering in a curve is?” My exact quote “More than half of the clueless young riders I’ve come across don’t know squat about counter-steering.” Detail has always defined a good engineer. Good night.

[trebb]

Don’t know how much Harley has progressed but I do remember when they not only had on-board tool kits, but the tool kits were used often - they lasted decades because it took decades to keep them running/operational enough to put on the same miles the Jap bikes managed with aplomb.

[Revelation 911]

have you seen the line up of late? - they are generic looking machines with no historical styling cues ...Bo-ring. Don’t blame this on boomers not buying...Todays machine is not a self wrenching friendly machine it used to be...I had an 84 sportster - I worked on it myself...and ended up with a really cool bike....I wouldn’t dare attempt it now....even then HD wouldn’t share paint codes....screw em.

[AFreeBird]

Cool. Those opposed cylinder heads always freak me out. I’d hate to have to really lean into a turn and scrape the head. Maybe it’s a visual perception thing and not as bad as it looks. I’ve never ridden one.

Not sure I’d want to ride through the deserts out west either. I think I’d cook my feet. My FJR is my first watercooled bike and I have to say I’m impressed with how well they’ve managed to route airflow so as not to cook the rider.

[Drew68]

Younger US buyers are looking for a rice rocket.

If they even want a motorcycle to begin with.

[OA5599]

Passed lots of Harley riders on the side of the road turning a wrench.

The difference between a guy who likes Harleys and a guy who likes import bikes is that Harley guys like to tinker with machines.

Harleys are like little hot rods. You can get custom parts for anything and everything. It's a lot of fun, but you're not going to out-engineer the engineers. This often leads to unexpected trouble.

So the imports are generally moving about unmolested in factory stock condition while Harleys are hardly ever left alone. Stock Harleys are quite reliable.

[eyeamok]

Actually it does 160, and since I am in my late 50’s I don’t ride nearly as fast as I did 30 years ago, but it is a fun little scooter.

[usconservative]

A stick shift is too much to master, let alone foot driven shifting.

For some of us with neuropathy in our feet who'd LOVE to ride again, foot driven shifting is out and the cost of converting a Harley to all hand-controls is very cost prohibitive.

A Spyder Can-Am on the other hand is quite affordable and has a nicer ride. Guess which I'm purchasing?

[CrazyIvan]

I’m closing in on 300K miles on BMW boxers. If you can scrape a valve cover you’re a better rider than me. You don’t really notice much heat from the jugs, in fact you are less likely to get heat built up behind a fairing than most bikes.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Anytime you see a collection of Harley bikers, one or two of them are limping...

[CrazyIvan]

“There is a reason why they have ruled the flat track for decades.”

At the risk of stirring the pot some more.......
The power delivery of the uneven firing order has something to do with this also. Kind of like a mechanical traction control. The pauses allow the tire to recover traction. An inline four with the same output could not put it on the ground as well. I heard this straight from Roger Reiman so I’m inclined to believe it.

[Garth Tater]

You want to know what’s really funny, you couldn’t find the article I referenced in post#36.

I didn't even look. Common courtesy requires that you link to the article you are directing me to. But you don't even know how to link an article, do you? LOL I should have known that a guy who doesn't know that his 50 hp motorcycle is not a speed machine wouldn't know how to link an article.   The only reason I even responded to your original post was because you were rude while at the same time being hysterically ignorant and I was looking for a bit of amusement - which I surely found!

Just to summarize your rudeness and hilarity for you:

Rude: "My old ‘86 4 speed chain drive Sportster is more than half the “experts” here could handle."

and you followed that up with this belly buster:

"It clearly will jerk a knot in your *ss if you can ride it"

That is just funny as hell coming from a wanna-be riding a 50 hp dog. "if you can ride it" -- Seriously dude, you are full of yourself, aren't you?

You need to keep hanging out with the weekend warriors and stay away from the real riders that know what they're talking about and ride serious road machines. 50 hp? -- Jerk a knot in your ass!!! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

[OA5599]

50 hp? -- Jerk a knot in your ass!!! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

You realize that a CR500 has about 56 hp... if you don't respect that, then I'm pretty sure you're talking out of your ass. Do you even ride?

[Garth Tater]

He rides a 1986 Sportster. Either an 883 with 46 hp or an 1100 with 50 hp - I asked him several times which one it was but he declined to answer. I'm not sure what the Honda CR500 has to do with the conversation. Is that what you ride?

I ride an 1988 Yamaha FZR 1000 with 145 hp for fun and an 1982 Honda 650 SC with 63 hp for putt-putting around with the old lady. I've ridden for over 40 years and I lived through the 80's when Harley Davidson was having it's problems - their bikes were built like crap back then.

"a CR500 has about 56 hp... if you don't respect that, then I'm pretty sure you're talking out of your ass."

Not only is his 50 hp bike a dog - he started out by being rude and then decided to tell us all how his bike would "jerk a knot in our *ss" "if we could ride it." Yeah, I have a little difficulty respecting posters like that. Are you a poster like that too? "if you don't respect that, then I'm pretty sure you're talking out of your ass. " is a pretty rude way to start out a conversation.

[OA5599]

He did not start the conversation with you; you started it with him. He was responding to a dig on Harleys by another poster. If he came across rude, it’s because the person he responded to was insulting to Harley owners first.

So technically, if you think the way I started the conversation with you was rude, then you must also think the way you started the conversation with OftheOhio was rude. I suppose we’re even then.

As for the CR500, it’s a 50hp bike that will rip your arms off. If you can handle it. Most people can’t. I don’t have one. I have a CR250R though. 35hp and a lot of people can’t handle it.

My main ride is a FXSTC but I also have an RC51 and an XR650R.

The FXSTC had no top end from the factory, so I did a bit of work to it. Big bore kit, screaming eagle heads, higher compression pistons. Really cooks now. Not sure of the figures, but it does take sport bikes off the line now... until a turn.

The RC51 is stock (125hp). Hard to mess with perfection.

The XR650R was 55hp from the factory I believe. I put in the HRC high compression piston and big cam kit, and it should be about 75hp now from what I understand. I live in NYC and this is a faster bike in Manhattan conditions than any sport bike.

[Garth Tater]

He did not start the conversation with you; you started it with him.

He posted to a public forum. He denigrated the posters there (including me) in his first post calling them "experts" with quotes. You know what the quotes mean, right?

So technically, if you think the way I started the conversation with you was rude

No, not technically - you really were rude. You posted directly to me in a dead thread and you should have asked me the question before telling I was talking out of my ass if I thought differently from you.

As for the CR500, it’s a 50hp bike that will rip your arms off. If you can handle it.

The only way a 56 hp bike can rip your arms off is if it's geared way down so it has a less than triple digit top speed. Like the other poster's Harley. I see you ride an FXSTC, with a less than impressive HP/Weight ratio. Want to tell me some tales about how you keep up with the fast machines? I'm a fisherman, I appreciate a good tale.

My main ride is a FXSTC but I also have an RC51 and an XR650R.

I thought you wrecked the RC51...

What happened to your RC51? Rider error or act of God? I've had the pleasure of both myself. We've talked before on a car thread. I know you know more than most about fast bikes and cars but that doesn't mean you can get the BS about an '86 Sportster being a fast ride past me.

Not sure of the figures, but it does take sport bikes off the line now... until a turn.

Yeah, it's a heavy beast and you are sitting up too high to get it through the turn like a road racer.

The RC51 is stock (125hp). Hard to mess with perfection.

That's one of the few bikes my old FZR has a hard time keeping up with. Wouldn't mind having one out in the shop.

You do remember saying how it had a problem with the engine cutting out in hard cornering before you wrecked it and you never did figure out what that was.... hmmmmm....

Good talking to you. Keep it real and on the road.

[OA5599]

He posted to a public forum. He denigrated the posters there (including me) in his first post calling them "experts" with quotes. You know what the quotes mean, right?

Well that's the thing about posting in a public forum. If you post something inflammatory, expect retaliation. And if you have thin skin, it's best that you don't post something inflammatory. And if you do, it's best to say something witty in response and not whine about feelings. One of these days I'll come up with something witty.

No, not technically - you really were rude. You posted directly to me in a dead thread and you should have asked me the question before telling I was talking out of my ass if I thought differently from you.

It's the internet. You're supposed to be rude. I think.

The only way a 56 hp bike can rip your arms off is if it's geared way down so it has a less than triple digit top speed. Like the other poster's Harley.

It's immaterial as to how a bike is made to be a beast to control if it truly is a beast to control. The CR500 was not made to go triple digit speeds, yet that doesn't negate the fact that it is a high strung monster that will eat an inexperienced rider alive.

I see you ride an FXSTC, with a less than impressive HP/Weight ratio. Want to tell me some tales about how you keep up with the fast machines? I'm a fisherman, I appreciate a good tale.

It's actually quite easy. It has traction, a long wheelbase and ungodly bottom end. Where I live the streets are straight and there are tons of lights. It's a drag race here and my rather non-stock FXSTC really shines. Not all "races" are GP, and I never claimed my FXSTC was faster than a sportbike other than off the line.

I thought you wrecked the RC51...

A few times. Always able to ride home however and damage mostly cosmetic. Wrecked the FXSTC a few times too. Twice not able to drive it home. (Mangled shifter lever, flat tire)

What happened to your RC51? Rider error or act of God? I've had the pleasure of both myself.

Rider error. First time was doing a wheelie in an industrial part of Queens and the road ended before I could stop. Almost went into the East River. Second time was a loss of traction issue in a turn. BTW the Harley wrecks were all either cars turning into me or debris in the road. NYC is not hospitable to motorcycles.

We've talked before on a car thread. I know you know more than most about fast bikes and cars but that doesn't mean you can get the BS about an '86 Sportster being a fast ride past me.

You never know what was done to it. I have this truly gifted rider as a friend that came to work one day on his '99 R1 and told me he was just destroyed on the Grand Central Parkway by an old man on a Sportster. 12 miles at 4 in the morning and he couldn't pass the Sportster on his R1 going all out. It was before I had my FXSTC so I didn't like that story at all.

Yeah, it's a heavy beast and you are sitting up too high to get it through the turn like a road racer.

To be perfectly honest, I don't even think my Softail handles well by cruiser standards. But that's not why I bought it. The sound, the look, the comfort... easily the best overall bike I've ever owned. An after the fact benefit turned out to be that I had no idea what a chick magnet it was. Gave more girls a ride in the first month of ownership than all my other bikes combined. Got to the point I had to turn girls away. It was pretty wild. Then I got a girlfriend and stopped hanging out at those types of places... good times.

That's one of the few bikes my old FZR has a hard time keeping up with. Wouldn't mind having one out in the shop.

I'm no racer and couldn't even extract a fraction of what a 600 is capable of. Went with the RC51 because all my friends had R1's and CBR's, but I don't like the sound of inline 4's. Really as simple as the sound of the bike.

You do remember saying how it had a problem with the engine cutting out in hard cornering before you wrecked it and you never did figure out what that was.... hmmmmm....

I just shot-gunned it and replaced a lot of crap including the wiring harnesses, ignition switch and the tilt switch. Weird thing is it never threw any codes. I suppose it's a primitive diagnostic system with no memory.

Good talking to you. Keep it real and on the road.

Likewise