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To: adorno; dayglored; roadcat; The KG9 Kid
Apple is now behind in the area that they're trying to catch up to MS with. Including a wow factor CPU can easily be done by any other manufacturer, and if that's what designers need and want, I'm pretty sure that MS can do it cheaper than Apple.

Quit your bragging about your mythical PC makers being able to make cheaper Xeon based PCs than Apple and show us.

I've shown you that PC makers' current products that DO NOT EVEN COME CLOSE TO MATCHING the announced iMac Pro's specs are FAR MORE EXPENSIVE than the Mac Pro, but you keep blithering about how the PC maker's could easily beat that Mac Pro's price but you are unwilling to put up or shut up. These PC workstation makers have YET to do it.

In fact, the Xeon processors to do so are ALONE MORE EXPENSIVE than the iMac Pro's retail price!

Don't make more baseless claims about desktop grade PCs, using desktop grade processors and RAM such as the Microsoft Surface Studio, JUIST SHOW US the "cheaper" PC Xeon solutions with the same 3.2 Xeon Gold or Xeon I7 equivalent processors (which are NOT several year old slow and outdated).

While you are at it, you can also QUIT calling a workstation grade computer with a workstation grade processor with ECC RAM just a "WOW factor" which demonstrates you don't have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to workstations.

The following is the Dell Workstation configured to as closely match the iMac Pro using the Dell Precision 5000 Workstation with a Xeon® Processor E5-1660 v4 (8C, 3.2GHz, 3.8GHz Turbo, 2400MHz, 20MB, 140W), 23GBs of 2400GHz ECC DDR4 RAM, a 1TB high-speed SSD, Dell UltraSharp 27 4K HDR Monitor - UP2718Q.


Note the actual cost before applying Dell's traditional discounts: $10,853.12. After discounts, they can sell a lesser workstation than the $4,995 iMac Pro for $8,606.56!

That configuration is with SLOWER bus speed, and slower RAM, 2400GHz instead of 2666GHz. . . and a Xeon processor that will not Turbo Boost to 4.5GHz. It also has only a 4K 27" monitor, not a 5K. And, Adorno, it only costs a mere $3,611.56 MORE than the $4995 iMac Pro.

Where are your less expensive PCs that are better and more powerful?

You are free to try building the same thing with another Workstation class provider anytime, say HP. Try to come up with one that meets that list of specifications of the iMac Pro and includes the software suites.

————————

Meanwhile, the Surface Studio comes in a lot less expensively than the iMac Pro.

As for your claiming that the work done on a WORKSTATION CLASS XEON machine could easily be done on a $4199.00 Microsoft Surface Studio "desktop" computer, I say BS, Adorno.

That desktop machine is in no way even close to a workstation computer. It is incapable of EVER installing a workstation class processor. Similarly, it can never use Error Correcting RAM. Ergo, it can never be considered a WORKSTATION GRADE computer!

That non-ECC RAM installed on that computer is limited to 32GBs. NO MORE, while the Mac Pro workstation grade computer can be expanded to 128GBs or later more, when the modules are available that hold more RAM per module. 32GBs is nowhere near a WORKSTATION capacity that may be later needed. The iMac Pro RAM is user expandable beyond its shipping 32GBs.

Why did I call the MS Surface Studio a "desktop" computer? Simple. because it isn't, when compared to the iMac Pro. It certainly is not a workstation class machine.

In the instance of the top end Surface Studio, the processor is an Intel Core i7-6820HQ clocked at just 2.70 GHz—a MOBILE NOTEBOOK PROCESSOR, not even a desktop processor—with only FOUR (4) CORES—and only 2 memory channels! There's not much real work you can do with it.


Intel Core i7-6820HQ 2.70 GHz

You are claiming this FOUR CORE NOTEBOOK processor can handle the same jobs as the EIGHT (8) CORE WORKSTATION XEON GOLD 3.2GHz processor that ships with the Apple iMac Pro???

The logic board in the iMac Pro is specifically designed for the workstation grade Xeon Processor. The logic board on the MS Surface Pro is limited to only mount Intel i5 and i7 notebook processors.

There is NO WAY these are in the same class of power or abilities.

Video editors, engineers, and scientists generally have ZERO need to draw on a touch screen. Zero.

54 posted on 06/11/2017 9:50:14 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: Swordmaker

This is still debate still going on? Okay.

One point I should make from an earlier post is that I presumed the new Intel Xeon chip would occupy the same retail price point as the previous top end Xeon CPU did, as it’s generally Intel’s custom to do so. I openly clarified that in my original estimate.

Another point I want to make from the recent Apple WWDC is that Apple has announced development support for an external Thunderbolt 3 enclosure that can house three linked PCI-16x video adapters. I want to take a moment to pay myself on the back in prophesizing this about a year ago here on FR and I’m really surprised this reveal at WWDC didn’t get more attention for the reasons I’ll list below. The hardware support could have been cobbled together by a developer a year ago but the official Apple driver support for it wasn’t endorsed or permitted by Apple for those who tried. Now they’ve got talk of OpenGL 4.1 and an update to Metal API called ‘Metal2’ coming in High Sierra.

What this suggests is Apple is driving a fundamental shift in PC architecture from the big tower sheet metal “grandpa box” enclosure to modular external componentry thanks to CPU bus speeds now available outside traditional 90-degree angle slots on an enclosed motherboard. It was only a matter of time the moment that makers of high end enthusiast graphics cards noted one of their most problematic barriers is delivering cutting edge video technology within the constraints of the real estate allowed by the form factor of a card that will fit within an ATX computer case.

To wit: Have you seen some of the monstrous top end enthusiast video cards reaching the market? Some of them doubled up are as big as a Nintendo Wii console! There’s soon going to be no traditional PC cases or AT/ATX-form motherboards to reliably fit them or allow them to run in a thermally safe PC case environment, so the solution is to take it outside the box. No other option.

I think that this is what the newly updated Apple products are now slated to do. I wonder how long it’ll take for the IEEE and PC Consortium to catch up? Let me make another prediction that in five years anyone still using a PC — probably for gaming — will no longer have a big sheet metal box, but a notebook or MacMini-like device that’s just a life support system for external video adapters enclosed in a separate box explicitly for that purpose. Another telling point is that in the new iMac Pro the RAM and CPU are user-upgradable and Apple let that be discovered without comment. So, in that future case, why run Windows at all? Choose MacOS or Linux depending on your wallet and preferences.

Another thing I might predict is for Apple to release a Metal2 API for Linux users, and then the ball is in DirectX’s court.


56 posted on 06/12/2017 12:37:37 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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