Here’s hoping the iMac Pro learns from the Mac Pro’s mistakes (LINK ONLY - ARStechnica)

ArsTechnica | 6/6/2017, 8:50 AM | By ANDREW CUNNINGHAM

[Swordmaker]

As impressive as the performance of iMac Pro looks, the price could make it impractical for many professionals and businesses. Having seen past iMacs overheat, professionals will also continue to be concerned about the cooling of the iMac Pro despite Apple's WWDC assurances. In the end, a high-powered Mac tower would have likely cost less, been more modular, and attracted a lot more enterprise buyers.

I maintain an office full of iMacs and other Macs, and have done so for over 15 years. We have NEVER had an iMac "overheat." Not once. . . and some of the applications are very processor intense. Sorry. That is pure FUD. The heat management and fan design in iMacs is very well engineered. What people were complaining about was a stuck software control that caused the fans to blow continually, not an overheat situation. It was fixed by using a keyboard command resetting the System Management Control (SMC). As for a Mac tower, a Mac Pro update is still in the works.

[Swordmaker]

The Microsoft Scorpion gaming system will get 6 teraflops at about around $600. So, string a couple of Scorpions together, and you’d have around 12 teraflops at slightly more than $1,000, or 1/5th the price of the iMac Pro.

It doesn't work that way. Just "stringing" some computers together is not the same as having it in one computer on your desktop. You have a "gaming" system without the support that goes along with it. Junk. And it hits 22TFlops in the iMac Pro.

[adorno]

Yes, it does work that way.

There have been many processors connected together that, when working together become supercomputers. The Scorpion may not be designed to be strung together to get to supercomputing power, but the processors can be divorced from the platform and put into different platforms to create a much more powerful computer.

The Xeon configuration that Apple uses is not exclusive to Apple, and any OEM can do the same, and perhaps a lot less expensively. But, there has not been a big need for such computers in the small business space or in the regular consumer environments; what Apple is simply doing, is trying to regain the WOW factor that they lost some years back, but that iMac is not going to get it done for Apple, since what the Macs used to be used for, can now be done with PCs at much lower costs and without the stupid wow factor.

Apple needs to move on and forget about their deception with the iMac.

BTW, by the time that Apple releases that computer to market, others may have copied the configuration and at much lower costs. That iMac is not scheduled to be out until some time next year, and perhaps never. It remain, for now, a talking point and smoke. And since it’s way too expensive, even for the target audience, Apple may be forced to drop the whole idea.

[adorno]

Yet, Apple itself acknowledged the problem with overheating that many user were having. As always, your usage experiences with any device may vary. Your experiences are not necessarily representative of the whole marketplace users.

[Swordmaker]

The Xeon configuration that Apple uses is not exclusive to Apple, and any OEM can do the same, and perhaps a lot less expensively.

I know about cluster computing, but it is not so easy as you claim. As I said, the company that makes your "gaming" speed demon also makes workstation computers with Xeon processors. I just configures one with an 8 core Xeon to closely match the iMac Pro. . . Here it is. It comes in at $5,472.00 with an OLDER, FAR SLOWER XEON at 2.1 GHz than the 3.2GHz Xeon Apple is putting in their $4995 iMac Pro, slower EDD RAM at 2133 GHz than the 2666 GHz that Apple is equipping their iMac Pro with, and NO 5K MONITOR at all, in fact no monitor at all is included at that price. . So much for your less expensive claims. You don't have a clue what you are blithering about. Not a clue.

Keep dancing. You don't do it well.

[adorno]

Oh, BTW.

I noticed how you compared the iMac prices with the price of a “similarly equipped” PC, where the PC came out losing by a couple thousand.

BUT... your sample was very dishonest.

For example, that “similarly equipped” device was for using off-the-shelf components to build that PC. Yet, no OEM would be charged like a regular customer for those components, and if an OEM were to build a similar configuration PC, there is no doubt that that PC would come out ahead of your iMac price. In fact, the similarly equipped PC at lower cost, would automatically be a better buy, simply because it would come with Windows 10 Pro,which could do a whole lot more types of applications immediately without any other “special software or hardware”.

[adorno]

Nice try with that configuration, but, I’m pretty sure that any OEM that wanted to compete with the iMac, would be able to get their hands on the most current Xeons with 24 cores, and build their systems at lower or equal prices as the iMac.

You’re still eating too much of the Apple hype.

And monitors with 4k and 5k resolutions are not hard to find at reasonable prices. In any case, the vast majority of those doing graphics work won’t be needing the 5k monitors, and the rest of those targeted for the iMac will be happy enough with 4k monitors. The 5k resolution is just another marketing ploy by Apple, and just another piece to hype in their marketing.

[Swordmaker]

Look at the size of that Touch Bar, size does matter.

You mean this "Touch Bar"???

That's not a "Touch Bar,". those are streaming scenes of a video. SHEESH! Learn something before you make an idiot out of yourself. . . but then you start there in these threads every time you post.

[Swordmaker]

For example, that “similarly equipped” device was for using off-the-shelf components to build that PC. Yet, no OEM would be charged like a regular customer for those components, and if an OEM were to build a similar configuration PC, there is no doubt that that PC would come out ahead of your iMac price.

So I am DISHONEST am I? How?

EXCUSE ME, Adorno. That price quote CAME FROM AN OEM manufacturer. Where do you think it came from? It was NOT using "off the shelf" consumer priced and grade components as you falsely claim. LOOK at the spec sheet. It came from Digital Storm, the builder of your "superpowered Scorpion gaming machine". . . It's their WORKSTATION CLASS MACHINE that you can configure with OEM components by a company that says of themselves:

"Digital Storm is one of the most innovative and elite gaming computer builders in the industry. Using only the best components, your custom PC build will be assembled by the hands of our expert gaming professionals. You still get all the choices of a DIY assembly but we do all the work building you a gaming desktop or laptop to fit your needs."

I used your own recommended source to hoist you on your own petard. I built a computer using their configuration tools that best meet the LOWEST PRICED iMac Pro's configuration, but it STILL DOES NOT MEET THE SPECS OF THAT iMAC PRO! There best effort is still slower and using OLDER components than what would be used in the iMac Pro.

As for the price of the Digital Storm Xeon Workstation, you would STILL have to buy a 5K one billion color gamut 27" monitor in addition, the least expensive of which in the PC world runs around $1500. So your total would come to ~$6,900!

The only dishonest one here, misrepresenting things, is YOU. You keep trying and trying to come up with something to denigrate the Apple computer. . . but you come up way short. Keep dancing. . . you are very amusing as a whirligig,

[Swordmaker]

Yet, Apple itself acknowledged the problem with overheating that many user were having. As always, your usage experiences with any device may vary. Your experiences are not necessarily representative of the whole marketplace users.

The "overheating" was not true overheating. I told you what was happening. It was the fans running at top speed, even though the iMac itself was idling. Look it up. Even the SCM issue was with iMacs back in 2009. . . and as I stated was easily handled by a combination of keys that would reset the System Control Module to force the fans back to normal. The Aluminum Chassis iMac is designed to be one gigantic heat sink. . . and does quite well controlling any heat that is generated.

iMac fan running constantly — Apple Help Support Discussion, Posted on May 5, 2010 2:43 AM

The "whole market place" was not ever having even the minor SCM problems. Not even a small fraction of 1% of iMac users ever experienced that minor problem, which you want people to think was a major issue, which occurred EIGHT YEARS AGO in a few iMacs. You are a FUD spreading troll.

[roadcat]

Very few problems with iMacs. I have one, never any problems. As for resetting the System Control Module, very easy. I helped my brother-in-law reset his a couple weeks ago, for an unrelated issue. Told him to unplug the power cord, wait 15 seconds, plug it back in, wait another 5 seconds and press the power-on button. That simple. For a non-Apple machine, it probably would go to the dumpster.

[adorno]

Then, that OEM was being very dishonest, and if they could not have obtained the components for their “similarly equipped” device, then that OEM has no business building PCs. And, btw, some OEMs like to quote what it would cost the personal PC builder if he/she obtained components “off the shelf”. In any case, it’s very doubtful that any PC OEM would have a hard time making their own “similarly equipped” PC at much lower prices than that iMac.

[adorno]

BTW, that iMac price is only smoke for now, and there is no doubt that, if and when that iMac is released to market, that it will be a lot more expensive than any other similarly equipped PC. But, like I said before, that iMac is just smoke for now, and it may never materialize into the real world.

[Swordmaker]

In fact, the similarly equipped PC at lower cost, would automatically be a better buy, simply because it would come with Windows 10 Pro,which could do a whole lot more types of applications immediately without any other “special software or hardware”.

ROTFLMAO! You don't seem to be aware that any Mac can run any version of Windows, natively or in a window within macOS as a virtual machine. You are the epitome of ignorance. You seem to think that macOS can't do the same things as Windows 10 Professional as a TradeMarked world class UNIX™ operating system can do.

What I found completely amusing is that the default OS with was provided with that Xeon workstation was Windows 10 Home Edition! LOL! I had a to option the Windows 10 Pro version at a higher price to get an equivalent pro level OS.

You keep claiming a lower cost PC would match or exceed the iMac but you haven't stepped up to the plate as I have and SHOWN you can build one from an OEM maker that does. DO IT. Put your claims right here and show us! Build one from a legitimate OEM maker that exceeds what Apple is putting on the market.

Here is the minimum list of specs you need to meet:

• 3.2Ghz XEON GOLD processor with 4.5GHz Turbo Boost. (or closest equivalent)
• 32GB of 2666MHz ECC DDR4 RAM. (or RAM that is supported by your Xeon choice).
• Logic Board that supports the Xeon processor and speed of RAM you've chosen.
• 1TB high-speed SSD
• Radeon Pro Vega 56 graphics processor with 8GB of HBM2 memory (or Equivalent)
• A Power Supply sufficient to power the above and also THREE external 5K, one billion color gamut displays. (the Apple iMac Pro has an internal and can power two external through its Thunderbolt 3 ports).
• A 10Gb Ethernet port, 802.11ac Wi-Fi wireless networking, IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n compatible
• 1080 P Internet Camera
• Stereo Speakers
• Wireless keyboard
• Wireless Mouse
• 5K 27" monitor with 1 billion color gamut
• Professional Grade OS.
• Office Suite software.

The Apple iMac Pro provides all that, plus a lot more for $4995. Your challenge is to build a PC version as closely as possible as you claim you can, for significantly under that price point.

Put up, or shut up, Adorno.

[Swordmaker]

Nice try with that configuration, but, I’m pretty sure that any OEM that wanted to compete with the iMac, would be able to get their hands on the most current Xeons with 24 cores, and build their systems at lower or equal prices as the iMac.

Have you PRICED a 24 core XEON PLATINUM processor, Adorno? YOU are truly delusional if you think they are less expensive than an iMac Pro's complete package. The Intel Xeon E7-8894 v4, 24 core, 2.4 GHz, 3.4 Turbo Burst on one core, or 2.8 Turbo Boost on all cores, supporting only 4 x 1866 Ghz ECC DDR4 RAM, introduced on the Market, February 9, 2017, sells for a mere $8,898.00 per Intel. .

The Skylake Xeon Platinum 8160, 24 Turbo Boost, supporting 6 x 2666GHz ECC DDR4 RAM that's already in the iMac Pro and can be swapped chip for chip, will be MORE expensive than that one. Intel hasn't priced it yet. Equivalent Xeons are upwards of $10,000.

Do you have any more LEAD balloons you want to float for me to shoot down with superior knowledge?

[Swordmaker]

And monitors with 4k and 5k resolutions are not hard to find at reasonable prices. In any case, the vast majority of those doing graphics work won’t be needing the 5k monitors, and the rest of those targeted for the iMac will be happy enough with 4k monitors. The 5k resolution is just another marketing ploy by Apple, and just another piece to hype in their marketing.

Oh, sure. right. you REALLY want to edit 4K video on a 4K monitor? Where are you going to put your tools, frames, etc? Are you going to stick them on a floating tool bar on top of your work you are editing, or are you going to be satisfied with an emulation of your screen just so you can have a tool bar somewhere on the screen? Pros find the 5K very desirable because they can have a full screen, full color real-time video running WITH a full tool kit on the same screen.

Amazon 5k monitors.

• HP Z27q 27'' 5K Ultra HD 2880p LED-Backlit LCD Monitor $1,684.99
• Phillips Brilliance Ultra 5K 275P4VYKEB 27" Ultra HD PLS Black,Silver $1,588.91
• Dell Ultra HD 5K Monitor UP2715K 27-Inch Screen LED-Lit Monitor (USED) $1299.00

NewEgg:

• DELL UP2715K Black 27” IPS 8ms Widescreen 5K Resolution Monitor 5120 x 2880 USB x 3 and Display Port $1,969.99

So, where are all these reasonably priced 5K monitors you claim are easy to find? I've looked. They are not on eBay, they're not on Amazon. NewEgg? Where? I. think you are Bovine Excrement artist.

Your news is a fake as it comes. Perhaps you should apply for a job with NBC, CBS, or CNN?

[Swordmaker]

BTW, that iMac price is only smoke for now, and there is no doubt that, if and when that iMac is released to market, that it will be a lot more expensive than any other similarly equipped PC. But, like I said before, that iMac is just smoke for now, and it may never materialize into the real world.

No, it isn't "smoke." Apple announced the price of the iMac Pro base as $4995. They have always met the prices they announce. Where do you get your irrational blathering lies? Have you ANY evidence at all of when Apple announced a product at one price and then released it at a higher price? Nope, you don't. So it's just another one of your FUD posts on this thread.

C'mon. Show us your build from an OEM PC maker that can beat that price with the list I gave you. Put your facts where your mouth is.

[Swordmaker]

Then, that OEM was being very dishonest, and if they could not have obtained the components for their “similarly equipped” device, then that OEM has no business building PCs. And, btw, some OEMs like to quote what it would cost the personal PC builder if he/she obtained components “off the shelf”. In any case, it’s very doubtful that any PC OEM would have a hard time making their own “similarly equipped” PC at much lower prices than that iMac.

You are such a liar. I told you it's not even "similarly equipped" but using older Xeons and RAM. . . and STILL more, far more, expensive.

You simply cannot take being shown up for being wrong, can you. Now you are calling the very company YOU used as an exemplar fast gaming computer maker dishonest just because they honestly price out a WORKSTATION class machine as being MORE EXPENSIVE than an Apple iMac Pro with lower speed and older components in their build.

WOW!

You are some piece of work, Adorno.

[Swordmaker]

Geeze thats what it looks like fanbois.

You deserve all the crap you get.

So you post things that make you look like a complete idiot to give us your stupid ignorant "crap."

Frankly, Okie, I don't see any up side in such stupid comments for you.

You come off as an ignorant idiot. . . and we get to show everyone that you ARE an ignorant, stupid, rude and buffoonish troll.

Then you go and post something like the comment above, proving we are 100% right.

You lose all around.