How to Think About Vladimir Putin

Imprimis, Hillsdale College ^ | March 2017 | Christopher Caldwell

[Navy Patriot]

Vladimir Putin is a powerful ideological symbol and a highly effective ideological litmus test. He is a hero to populist conservatives around the world and anathema to progressives. I don’t want to compare him to our own president, but if you know enough about what a given American thinks of Putin, you can probably tell what he thinks of Donald Trump.

Let me stress at the outset that this is not going to be a talk about what to think about Putin, which is something you are all capable of making up your minds on, but rather how to think about him. And on this, there is one basic truth to remember, although it is often forgotten. Our globalist leaders may have deprecated sovereignty since the end of the Cold War, but that does not mean it has ceased for an instant to be the primary subject of politics.

Vladimir Vladimirovich is not the president of a feminist NGO. He is not a transgender-rights activist. He is not an ombudsman appointed by the United Nations to make and deliver slide shows about green energy. He is the elected leader of Russia—a rugged, relatively poor, militarily powerful country that in recent years has been frequently humiliated, robbed, and misled. His job has been to protect his country’s prerogatives and its sovereignty in an international system that seeks to erode sovereignty in general and views Russia’s sovereignty in particular as a threat.

[elhombrelibre]

putin is the number one kleptocrat; he uses that issue to smack down anyone with the temerity to question him or try to hold him accountable.

[elhombrelibre]

putin is the number one kleptocrat; he uses that issue to smack down anyone with the temerity to question him or try to hold him accountable.

[elhombrelibre]

putin is the number one kleptocrat; he uses that issue to smack down anyone with the temerity to question him or try to hold him accountable.

[elhombrelibre]

Instead of globalism, support dictators. They know who the globalists are and how to deal with them!

[BroJoeK]

elhombrelibre: "You ignore that some of these putinistas are embracing treason for putin; they’re putting the interest of that tyrant above the interest of the American people."

Only because there's no evidence presented here that such posters are actually Americans.
If they are Russians & agents of Putin, then they are just doing their jobs, and are not treasonous Americans.
Otherwise, you are correct and I take your point.

[BroJoeK]

Bogie: "Nobody in their right mind trusts McCain."

So you, like Chengdu54 would replace McCain with Putin as chairman of our Senate Armed Services Committee?

And do you claim to be a US citizen?

[elhombrelibre]

I agree. If you don’t trust the US Senators, the CIA, POTUS, etc., why become a dupe for a foreign despot? I’m okay with skepticism, but these folks are like the left. The left used to embrace all the foreign tyrants out of opposition to the “System,” “the Man,” or older generation. Now, we have supposed conservatives who buy into the putin narrative as spouted in his controlled media. Weird.

[BroJoeK]

Well said, thanks.

[Bogie]

I’m a Vet too.

[BroJoeK]

Bogie: "I’m a Vet too."

Oh? In whose military?
Do you, like Chengdu54, want to replace McCain with Vlad as our Senate Armed Services Committee chairman?

[Chengdu54]

That’s a bogus question. I trust my dad and my daughter more than I trust McCain. But I don’t want them leading that committee. McCain is a snake warmonger. Vlad Putin is the leader of his nation. I’m wondering if you even read the original article in Imprimus. Perhaps you should try dealing with the author’s points instead of spewing out the usual propaganda.

[BroJoeK]

Chengdu54: "McCain is a snake warmonger.
Vlad Putin is the leader of his nation."

Your good-buddy, "Vlad" Putin ordered more wars against his neighbors (i.e., Georgia, Ukraine) and enemies of his allies (i.e., Syria's Assad) than McCain ordered.
Your buddy "Vlad" is himself buddy-buddies with the world's biggest exporter of terrorism, Iran.
And you love your "Vlad" because of why?

Chengdu54: "I’m wondering if you even read the original article in Imprimus.
Perhaps you should try dealing with the author’s points instead of spewing out the usual propaganda."

To the degree that the article makes Putin a conservative "hero", it's totally off-base.
To the degree that Chengdu54 supports Putin over Senator McCain, you are utterly insane, FRiend.

[Chengdu54]

The question is why did Putin do that. Did you read the article?

I don’t think you did.

If Canada was overthrown by Marxist elements friendly to Cuba or China, would the US take action?

Do you really think the Russians would allow Ukraine to open its ports to US navy?

I’m totally finished with the idea that we ought to remain on the verge of war with other nations in the world that you or John McCain don’t see eye to eye with.

We have much more in common with Russia than you think.

Read the article.

[cousair]

BOY,do I agree. Obama has installed his leftist army anywhere he can and most Americans don’t even pay enough attention to him since he left office. Putin doesn’t even come close. He is busy trying to keep his country’s head above water.

[BroJoeK]

Chengdu54: "The question is why did Putin do that. Did you read the article?
I don’t think you did."

Sure I did, but did not take away from it what you here suggest.

Chengdu54: "If Canada was overthrown by Marxist elements friendly to Cuba or China, would the US take action?"

"Overthrown"? As in "voted into office"?
That's no problem for us -- Canadians have always been very friendly people, including with Cubans and Chinese.
Such affairs -- assuming lawful, peaceful and normal -- are their business, not ours.

Chengdu54: "Do you really think the Russians would allow Ukraine to open its ports to US navy?"

Sure, just as we would not stop Canadians from allowing peaceful port visits by the Cuban or Chinese navies.
Of course, we may want to keep a close eye on them, to be sure they won't do us harm, but otherwise such matters, if peaceful, lawful and normal, are their business, not ours.

Chengdu54: "I’m totally finished with the idea that we ought to remain on the verge of war with other nations in the world that you or John McCain don’t see eye to eye with."

Of course, just as British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain was "totally finished" with opposing Nazi expansionism in 1938.
Chamberlain even got a piece of paper signed by his buddy-buddy, old "Adolf" Schicklgruber (aka Hitler), waving it in the air for all to see.
And it worked too, for a few months.

Chengdu54: "We have much more in common with Russia than you think."

Naturally we do have a lot in common with Russians, going back centuries and especially remembering the Second World War.
Without our old Soviet allies and Stalin, the West may not have won that war, and without US military aid Stalin may not have defeated the invading Axis armies.
So nobody says we shouldn't team up with Russians to defeat our common enemies (i.e., radical Islamic terrorists), but let us not forget how problematic relations with Russians can be.
In exchange for Soviet loyalty in WWII, the West stood back and did nothing as Stalin over-ran and took over all of Eastern Europe.

"Friendship" with Russians always comes at a great price for us and even greater for others.

[Bogie]

1ST Infantry Division to you, neocon.

http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/by-jingo-an-act-of-war/

[x]

Who are the conservatives that supposedly think of Putin as a hero? I’ve never seen that sentiment expressed anywhere.

There are too many shootings and bombings and poisonings linked to Putin for him to be much of a hero.

Even if half the charges aren't true, that still means he's been up to some very sordid stuff.

Caldwell says:

He is a hero to populist conservatives around the world and anathema to progressives.

Nonsense. Like many strongmen now and throughout history, Putin doesn't fit very well into the simplistic left-right spectrum. Depending on the foreign alliances that he makes people will associate him with the right or the left, but like a lot of autocrats he's more about power than about some set of ideological principles.

[BroJoeK]

Bogie: "1ST Infantry Division to you, neocon. http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/by-jingo-an-act-of-war/"

BRO. So now you've switched sides and favor Russia's Putin over our own Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman McCain?
What is that, Stockholm syndrome?

Your lame article says our leaders should be people who've served themselves, no argument from me, but McCain did serve, as have a good many in the President's new cabinet.

Remember, the thread article above says Putin is a "hero" to conservatives, but he's no "hero" to me.
KGB Colonel Putin rules with an iron hand at home, stifling dissent, preventing freedom of the press, even killing his opposition.
Abroad Putin invades his neighbors (Georgia, Ukraine), threatens others (Baltic states), interferes in elections (possibly even ours?), and makes war against enemies of his ally (Assad in Syria).
Putin is also buddy-buddies with the world's biggest exporter of terrorism: Iran.

And this is who you prefer over McCain?

I say, if President Trump can make a deal with Putin to fight radical Islamic terrorism, then that's great.
But it will not make Putin a "hero" any more than previous Russian leaders going back many decades.

[Bogie]

What is the source of your thoughts?

Anyhow, (http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/by-jingo-an-act-of-war/) is light years ahead of anything you trolls are capable of.

[BroJoeK]

Bogie: "Anyhow, (http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/by-jingo-an-act-of-war/) is light years ahead of anything you trolls are capable of."

No it's not, it's ancient history -- I've seen similar nonsense for many decades.
And I note that none of its alleged Republican "neo-cons" are in President Trump's administration.
I voted for Trump and think he's got just the right mix of tough, love & deal making.
If anybody can do it, he can, and if it ever comes to use of force, I trust he won't pussyfoot with it.

But the question remains: why in the world would Bogie prefer KGB Colonel Putin to US Senator McCain to lead the Senate Armed Services Committee?
I'd call that ipso facto proof of lunacy!