I would probably back off your tone, and instead offer this: Yes, this was one of the most important times for FR to be up. And yes, there can be improvements to prevent a recurrence. Some of them include: Having a full-on, replicated rollover server, or installing the system in the cloud.
They both have risks: The first one, that the rollover fails anyways, and the second, that the cloud provider shuts down FR on a whim.
To understand why JR might be strenuously opposed to the second option, you must understand the history: The reason this very forum even EXISTS is that AOL shut down JR’s Whitewater discussion group in 1997 or so. I’m sure he’s not interested in being under anyone else’s thumb again.
The only way to develop for the second option and allow a quick change to another cloud provider is to code with Repositories and Data Transfer Objects, unit-test and use such mock-providers as Moq. This sort of development post-dates the time frame that FR was built, so there is likely no such level of seperation between business and data layers.
I definitely would like to see some catastrophic-failure planning. Short of the shutdown of the internet outright, FR should always remain on.
I say this all without anger or recrimination whatsoever, and with only a tone of ‘How can we make FR more durable’?
Thanks for your explanation. I really don’t understand how these things work. And this is an amazing site. I don’t want it vulnerable.
That's an interesting bit of history I was unaware of.
” allow a quick change to another cloud provider is to code with Repositories and Data Transfer Objects, unit-test and use such mock-providers as Moq.”
I was just going to say that-——(yeah,right.):-)
FReepers are so smart.
.
I don’t think there’s really any need to get that complicated about it. As someone who has worked in the business for going on 2 decades, it’s probably a good idea to avoid the ‘cloud’ for FR.
From the little bit I’ve been able to gather about the architecture John has put together, it seems to me that simple Mysql replication to a second database server would have made this a few minute blip instead of a 36 hour disaster.
It doesn’t even have to be a fancy complicated failover system. If FR is down for an hour while John is notified so he can log in and switch the IP of the Mysql server, the world will not end. Then, the site comes back up and John can fix the main server while nobody knows anything is even wrong.
Maybe they already have it like this and something more catastrophic happened. This has happened a lot of times though. They should have figured it out by now. The solutions don’t have to be very expensive or complicated.
Thank you, Laz!
Well said, Laz. I don't understand the technical issues, but I feel confident that JimRob and John do everything possible to keep FR up and running without putting us under the thumb of other organizations. I did manage to find the FR page on Facebook, and it was good to be among my fellow FReepers during the inauguration weekend.
MOAR Freepathons.
Also, I thought I heard elsewhere on the web, that a number of conservative sites were subjected to DDOS attacks. I just figured FR was one of the targets.
I think most people are completely unaware of this fact Laz. I only found FR on AOL (OMG, I was actually on that POS) about a week before AOL yanked the plug on Jim. I understand Jim's hesitance about "not having complete control" however I'd offer up this:
He doesn't have complete control today. Hardware and Software failures require direct intervention from him and/or John. I don't know how convenient/inconvenient it is for John to make the trip to the Data Center that FR's housed in. Guessing John has a life outside of FR and anytime FR goes down means disruption in his life.
That brings me to my second point: FR is hosted in a data center, so to some degree JimRob doesn't have control today. The hosting provider that runs that data center can decide at any time they don't want a "controversial right-wing website" as a customer anymore as soon as someone starts complaining about it. We've never seen other websites shut down/kicked out of a hosting provider before have we?
Third, DNS, Security (as provided by the hosting provider) and other things are already outside of Jim's control. I'd venture a guess that a well orchestrated DDOS attack could make whatever data center FR is hosted in vulnerable. Whether that DDOS attack is against FR or another target within that data center or the hosting provider itself FR's gonna get impacted.
I can keep going, however there's already a significant number of things outside Jim's control so the question really is: Is FR in the right data center/hosting provider? Are the right controls in place to guarantee uptime and availability for FR by the hosting provider/data center?
I could go on (as you know I do this for a living ...) and likely find more that's already outside Jim's control or putting him at the mercy/good grace of someone else.
Certainly no slight intended towards Jim or John at all as on balance FR's track record has been pretty damn' good. Jim and John do great work.
Times change, technologies change, hacking/attack vectors change all the time and keeping up with them is a real b*tch. I do it for a living and I struggle with it. Do I really expect Jim and John to do that?
Truth is I'd really rather they focused on bigger and better things in regards to the forum and not worry about the day to day operational b.s. that running a successful forum like FR requires. I love FR and find the site to be very functional for what I use it for, however the basic interface hasn't changed in the almost 20 years I've been here and a facelift would really be nice.
Then there's a mobile site which would be AWESOME for FR. I'd love to use my smartphone or iPad to browse FR and check in for a few minutes while I'm working and need a mental break.
If cost for the above is an issue, perhaps Jim and John would want to think about limited, targeted advertising on FR to add revenue. Smart, relevant, well placed advertising that doesn't interfere with the user experience and generates some revenue clicks for Jim and John may be a good idea to at least investigate. I know there's a ton of objection to that here on FR, if one envisions the limited, targeted, well placed advertising on Drudge for example, that's exactly what I'm talking about. That kind of advertising doesn't interfere with the user experience and yet look at the revenue Drudge gets from it. (That's ALL his revenue btw.)
So for those who'll read this and jump on me for saying Jim and John don't do a great job - that's not what I'm saying. They in fact DO a great job. The question is: at what personal cost? Is it time to give the day to day operational tasks to someone else who has the resources to bring to bear when needed (and allows Jim and John to focus on better, more important things?) I'd venture an educated guess they've pondered this question before, perhaps it's time to do so again while convening a close, trusted group they trust to kick that question around.
Hey, I know I'm getting older and the things that I still kinda like doing like mowing my lawn and taking care of my house, I've been giving to other people to do for me so I can do more of the OTHER THINGS that I'd like to do more of. It's in this context I raise these questions and most definitely NOT to find any fault with FR's management.
Just my own opinion and you know what they say about opinions. :-)