Posted on 12/25/2016 2:33:41 PM PST by Gamecock
The pastor of one of America’s largest megachurches stirred up Christmas controversy after preaching that the story of Jesus’ virgin birth is not crucial to the Christian faith.
“If somebody can predict their own death and resurrection, I’m not all that concerned about how they got into the world,” Andy Stanley said in a Dec. 4 sermon at North Point Community Church, which draws 36,000 attendees across six locations in suburban Atlanta. “Christianity doesn’t hinge on the truth or even the stories around the birth of Jesus. It hinges on the resurrection of Jesus.”
But I don’t subscribe to that premise.
And you assume I do because why?
Because you said it.
Did I now?
Source please.
I see you're attempting to use catholic logic again.
Just. Stop.
You continue to embarrass yourself.
I agree, to the extent I understand what you’re saying. The Gospels tell us what is important about the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
Sidenote, completely unrelated to the divinity of Jesus but related to your post about Jesus’s age:
The only way we can date things about Jesus’s age in the Bible is its mention of Roman leaders and Emperors. These are well documented by historians down through the ages, some contemporaneously.
Jesus was born during the reign of Augustus (Luke 2:1), placing it from 27 BC to 14 AD.
It is further narrowed down by mention of Cyrenius/Quirinus being the governor of Syria and his census for taxation (Luke 2:2), which was done in 6 AD according to extra-Biblical sources.
So Jesus was born in what we think of now as 6 AD.
Jesus’s death and resurrection occurred in a less precisely documented time (at least Biblically).
John the Baptist began preaching about Jesus 15 years in the reign of Tiberius (Luke 3:1). Tiberius became Emperor when Augustus died in 14 AD. 15 years + 14 AD = 29 AD. Jesus began his ministry around 1 year later when He was 30; this is confirmed explicitly by Luke (Luke 3:23).
Jesus’s ministry began around that time and continued for 1 to 3 years afterward loosely according to the Gospels.
but the guy should have said it better...
When a few words are taken out of context, they do not always sound right. WAPO is doing the same thing it does to Trump or other conservatives - cutting a piece out of a whole speech or comment, and trying to make it say whatever they want to project or accuse someone of. I don’t listen to Andy Stanley (Charles Stanley’s son), but as he has said in his own defense, if the reader had heard the entire 3 part series, he would see that he believes in the whole Bible, including the virgin birth.
Andy, in his attempt to not be his dad, will from time to time say things to push the envelope. He needs to be more careful in how he handles the Word.
It's not important to me what exact dates He was born and when He died on the cross. His existence has been proven to be factual and his life, as recorded, is enough.
If that suffices, and I agree that the life is senior to its bookends, then it suffices.
There is no such thing as “Catholic logic.” Just as there is no such thing as “Jewish physics.”
“If He had intended this we would have a Biblical fixing of the date.”
This implies that all practices not prescribed in Scripture are forbidden.
Most certainly.
I’m not a theologian, just an ordinary woman who holds scripture to be the inerrant Word of God. So what I say is not profound, just words from my heart.
I am familiar with Andy Stanley’s church as I visited it many times while living in Alpharetta, Ga (prior to moving to NC this past summer). North Point Christian Church grew quickly to a mega church because of the popularity of the already beloved Charles Stanley, people flocked to hear his son Andy preach. As the years went by, we saw Andy grow from Christ centered to what I can only describe as “Andy centered”. The service became more about the multimedia show than worship that surrenders ones self to the Lord. At that point I saw no reason to visit there again and my friends who were members there moved on as well. There were plenty more people in the heavily populated area to crave the feel good prosperity gospel Andy was beginning to hint at, to take the place of the people leaving and refill the mega church.
Now about the importance of Christmas....... Of course it is Easter, or as I like to call it, Ressurection Day that is most important to us, but as a Mother and Grandmother I say, it is not possible to introduce Jesus to our 2 year olds with the crucifixion story. Instead we start with the birth story. They can even at 2 years old understand the birth of the baby Jesus and the fact that shepherds and wise men brought Him gifts and worshiped Him, to mean He was very important to them. And important to us too, if we have such a grand celebration about it and give gifts to each other and all. Then as those 2 year olds grow they want to hear more about Jesus. They want to know what He did when He grew up and they continue to grow in their knowledge of Him till one day hopefully they understand fully why we worship Him.
So think of the world of unbelievers as little children (in their understanding level of Christ). How many have been introduced to the savior with the simple story of the miracle of His birth and all the circumstance surrounding it. Perhaps the fact that we do not know all the details concerning the exact date, time of the year, location of the stable, etc. makes it very like us Mothers introducing Jesus to our 2 year olds ...... Those missing details are simply not the focus of the story, but just grasping understanding that the birth of this baby was so very important and that this birth would a gift to us so very important that it would change the world forever and culminate in His ultimate sacrifice on the cross. Holding my 2 year old grandson in my lap last night, he pointed to the cross hanging round my neck and said, “Grammy’s necklace .... What’s that on it?” I just hugged him and said Grammy will tell you that story later.
Very good post!
Don’t misunderstand. In the totality, birth, life, death, resurrection, the cumulative make the whole a reality of the manifestation of God. Theologians can argue the minutia. Those esoteric details simply aren’t all that important to most people. Faith enters somewhere along the line. No other birth in the history of man has been as studied and argued about as the birth of Christ. No other life has been as scrutinized as His. No other story has been as debated and picked apart as has the ministry of Christ. For me, there is a divine reason that Christ has endured. It is simply that His existence and His example, as the light and the way, is an immutable truth. No Earthly power can destroy that faith in Christ.
":^)
You’re right....there is no such thing as catholic logic. You prove that with your posts. LOL!
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