A Clash Between German and Japanese Battleships Would Have Been Mighty

War is Boring ^ | August 14, 2016 | Roberty Farley

[C19fan]

Can we imagine a scenario in which two titans of World War II, the German battleship Bismarck and the Japanese battleship Yamato, would come into conflict? Difficult, but not impossible. Had the Battle of the Marne gone the other way, Germany might have forced France from the World War I in the early fall of 1914, just as it did in the spring of 1940.

[Bull Snipe]

IMO a more interesting contest would have been one of our Iowa Class battleships v. Bismarck or Tirpitz.

[TalonDJ]

“If Nagumo(sp) and Halsey had traded places we would have lost the war in the Pacific.”

No possible chance of that.

We cancelled more battleships at the end of the war than all the battle ships Japan ever made. We built more carriers during the war than every other country ever, put together.

[Vigilanteman]

I never knew that the Ark Royal sent biplanes, though I do know that carrier planes we had at the end of the war had a considerable technological advantage over British carrier planes at the beginning. But biplanes? Do you have a link?

[TalonDJ]

Iowa Class battleships v. Bismarck or Tirpitz.

Still not much of a match up. Even the South Dakotas and North Carolinas would have creamed the Bismark.

[TalonDJ]

My work access is all restricted... but google up the Fairey Swordfish. That is what did it.

[TalonDJ]

And as you can imagine, the Swordfish carried a lot lighter torpedo than what we shot up the Yamato with.

[TalonDJ]

If you pull up the Ark Royal’s wiki page you can get details there too.

[rlmorel]

Agreed. The Iowa’s were the pinnacle of battleship development, IMO.

Better Naval engineering, maneuvering speed, top speed, seaworthyness (better than Bismark, at least) fire control (except possibly optical, which the Germans were supposedly very good at) and damage control systems and training.

If I had a choice of any ship of those three to be on in a fight, it would be an Iowa class.

That said, the amount and type of ordinance used to sink the IJN Yamato was staggering. When attacking by torpedo bomber, they had to purposely concentrate on one side of the Yamato, because the Mushashi stayed afloat longer than she should have due to her staying upright longer, IIRC.

[Forward the Light Brigade]

Fun to re-play WW II but in a real conflict it would be very different indeed. Its like matching the Monitor vs the Virginia in the Civil War? Or CSS Stonewall vs. The USS New Ironsides. Unless we profect the rail gun the days of Naval Warfare will only be the world of Submarines.

[Vigilanteman]

Not only a great write-up, but a great photo too:

One learns a lot from fellow Freepers!

[MeganC]

If Germany had won WW1 and avoided the Versailles treaty then they would have avoided the Washington Treaty and German battleships would have entered the 1940’s as at least equal to and likely superior to anything the Japanese could put in the water. They’d have also developed superiority in submarines and the battle between the German navy and the Japanese navy would have included Japanese ships getting slaughtered by long range U boats and then getting shelled by super battleships mounting naval versions of the Gustav guns.

It would not have been pretty.

[TalonDJ]

Keep in mind that the Yamato was designed from then outset to take on more than one US battleship at the same time. They knew they were going to be outnumbered so they planned to fight US battleships two or more at a time.

[Vinnie]

They were biplanes. Hard to believe
pic
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Ark-Royal
article
http://www.particlenews.com/n/03p2KmNj?s=home

[bus man]

If Nagumo(sp) and Halsey had traded places we would have lost the war in the Pacific.

Conversely, if Halsey had been in command of Task Force 16 at Midway, instead of Spruance, we would have lost that battle. Having attained complete air superiority by knocking out all four of the Japanese fleet carriers, there's no way Halsey could have resisted charging after the IJN surface fleet. This, of course, is exactly what Nagumo was hoping he would do. Our planes were grounded at night, and the dark silhouettes of the Enterprise and Hornet would have been easy targets for the Japanese battleships, cruisers, and destroyers that were out looking for them. Spruance did exactly the right thing by withdrawing during the night and then charging back after them the next morning, once his planes could go aloft again.

Halsey was a great leader, and he played an indispensable role in winning the Pacific War. But I believe that Spruance was the better admiral.

[TalonDJ]

“German battleships would have entered the 1940’s as at least equal to and likely superior to anything the Japanese could put in the water.”

Not sure where you are coming up with all that. I have never heard of the Germans even having something on a drawing board that came close to the Yamato. Japanese Subs were extremely capable and their torpedoes were outstanding. JAPANESE torpedo bombers were far superior to the British ones. The Japanese aircraft would have obliterated the Bismarck much faster. Just like they did to the Prince of Wales and Repulse. The Prince of Wales was a considerably better battleship than the Bizmark and the Japanese did not even need a battleship to help finish it off. They did it all with planes. There is less than zero chance that the Germans could have projected the naval power into the pacific needed to seriously challenge the Japanese. They would not have even made it out of the Indian ocean

[TalonDJ]

And not very many of them either. The Ark Royal was not a big boat.

[MichaelRDanger]

One must consider more than the ships for a hypothetical naval engagement. America beat Japan because of our sailors...

[MeganC]

“Not sure where you are coming up with all that.”

Since you didn’t actually read my post perhaps you should do so before we go on.

[C19fan]

The Germans had battleships post-Bismarck on the drawing board called the H class. There were going to be variations each bigger, heavier guns, and more armor than the previous version.

[thoughtomator]

dabbling in Kantai Collection every now and again, I find this conversation absolutely hilarious