I’ve been part of the political process since 1980...NEVER have I seen a candidate seem to push his faith as much. Not even Huck.
How soon we forget!
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Locked on 06/29/2016 1:52:18 PM PDT by Jim Robinson, reason:
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Posted on 06/24/2016 7:01:11 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
Now maybe Trump can take down the framed Playboy magazine off his wall. Looks ridiculous in the background with photos of religious leaders.
It’s true and beautiful, qualities which naturally belong together.
By that logic, maybe you're misposting to me right now. Are you sure you mean to be posting to me? You might actually be intending to post to someone else at this very moment. I think you should examine that possibility carefully.
HMMMmmm...
Elsie,I may know and understand the references you cite better than you. They do not pertain to my comment to Jonty. It is not for us to ‘judge’ whether a person’s profession of faith is genuine. Eventually we may know them by their ‘fruits’...The Spirit reveals all things ‘in due course’.
You are welcome.
I wonder who will be Trump’s WH pastor? I hope he gets good disciplining.
>>I wonder who will be Trump’s WH pastor? I hope he gets good disciplining.
That is an interesting question, freelife.
I hope it is someone who is a quiet, humble, and wise pastor, and not one of those flashy, Big Religion-types who smile for the camera and promote their latest Book of the Month deal : )
Cheers,
RWL ; )
I’ve been part of the political process since 1980...NEVER have I seen a candidate seem to push his faith as much. Not even Huck.
How soon we forget!
Cruz was pushing the narrative continually.
Cruz was pushing the narrative continually.
Have you read the Bible, and studied it?
According to God’s Word, a Christian’s faith will be apparent in word and deed. If Donald Trump has accepted Christ as his Savior, that will become apparent in some way.
The question isn’t IF it will, only HOW.
So what Christians, looking on, shouldn’t do is look for things like certain instantaneous changes, and think that if Trump doesn’t meet all of someone’s expectations, then it’s safe to conclude he isn’t a Christian. Everything has to be looked at and considered carefully in the light of God’s Word.
But most certainly the Bible teaches that one’s faith is visible to others, and Daniel1212 is only speaking what’s in the Bible on that.
And you took his words on that out of context, drastically altering their meaning:
“If I can show you a true believer”? — Really? And who are you, that such should be shown to you?”
This is what he actually wrote:
“If you can show me a true believer in Scripture that never wanted to do so then you can make your case...”
A true believer IN SCRIPTURE. That isn’t man’s word and judgments, but GOD’S! And through HIS authority as GOD, HE revealed things about people which were recorded in the Bible. HE recorded the examples of people of faith, and of people who were unbelieving. These were people like John the Baptist and Herod. Do you have any doubt that John had faith and Herod was unbelieving?
It's always a tell if you have to start with an insult. So I'll ask, have YOU read the Bible, and studied it? Because I'm not seeing any evidence of it here.
According to God’s Word, a Christian’s faith will be apparent in word and deed. If Donald Trump has accepted Christ as his Savior, that will become apparent in some way. The question isn’t IF it will, only HOW.
"In some way"? You don't think coming from nowhere, defeating sixteen GOP backed RINOs and all the press and a Rat political machine a quarter century in the making for the Clintons isn't some kind of indication? Based solely - solely, mind you - on backing the principles upon which America is based, which by the way ARE Christian principles? AND directly called Hillary the criminal she actually is, point by point, in public, as NO ONE has EVER been able to do? Or is all of that too subtle for you?
So what Christians, looking on, shouldn’t do is look for things like certain instantaneous changes, and think that if Trump doesn’t meet all of someone’s expectations, then it’s safe to conclude he isn’t a Christian. Everything has to be looked at and considered carefully in the light of God’s Word.
That's not what Daniel1212 said. He said if Trump doesn't pronounce it to his personal satisfaction, it doesn't exist. So don't try to soften what is going on here.
But most certainly the Bible teaches that one’s faith is visible to others, and Daniel1212 is only speaking what’s in the Bible on that.
Like I said, it's "visible" to the entire planet. Only Bible textualists seem to be unable to see it.
And you took his words on that out of context, drastically altering their meaning: “If I can show you a true believer”? — Really? And who are you, that such should be shown to you?” This is what he actually wrote: “If you can show me a true believer in Scripture that never wanted to do so then you can make your case...” A true believer IN SCRIPTURE.
No, he said "if you can show ME a true believer in scripture..." Him. Show HIM. So HE, Daniel1212, will decide whether scriptural authority was met. He set HIMSELF up as the judge of the application of scripture, in this case in the assessment of Trump's soul before Christ. And that's why I pointed out that his arrogance was insufferable - because it is. Daniel1212 has NO AUTHORITY to make such a judgement about another soul - that authority is CHRIST'S ALONE.
That isn’t man’s word and judgments, but GOD’S! And through HIS authority as GOD, HE revealed things about people which were recorded in the Bible. HE recorded the examples of people of faith, and of people who were unbelieving. These were people like John the Baptist and Herod.
I have some news for you - the Bible doesn't SAY anything. The Bible is a book of words. PEOPLE say what THEY THINK the Bible means - including you, and including Daniel1212. And then they HIDE THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS BEHIND THE BIBLE. The Catholics and the Protestants have, to all of the most important extents, the SAME Bible. Yet both interpret the SAME words so differently that they declare the other heretics and bound for HELL. Think this is a trivial issue? Even Protestant sects feel that way about each other, over the SAME Bible. If the Bible could SAY anything, then there would not be these gigantic rifts in understanding. But the Bible DOESN'T say anything. People like YOU say that it says things, while setting yourself up as arbiters of God's word without ever having to admit that it is nothing but your personal OPINION. And so I ask you, as you asked me, have you read the Bible, and studied it? Because it seems to me you missed that entire "I know you not" part of Jesus' teachings. You know, what he said towards hypocrites who did "wonders" in His name? That one.
Do you have any doubt that John had faith and Herod was unbelieving?
Do you have any doubt that ONLY the power of God could enable Trump to take on - and defeat - EVERY demonic power trying to destroy America? And do you also think such power comes WITHOUT FAITH?
What Christ is teaching in that verse is a warning about hypocrisy. If you’re going to teach something as righteous, people are going to look at you to see if you are living the life you are espousing.
Are you?
Am I what?
“Do you have any doubt that ONLY the power of God could enable Trump to take on - and defeat - EVERY demonic power trying to destroy America? And do you also think such power comes WITHOUT FAITH?”
So your requirements of faith is power? Well then the Antichrist will fool you completely as he will be able to do all kind of wonders with power.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
So you're saying Trump is being protected by Satan?
I don’t care what religion Trump is, as long as he gets elected, builds the wall and makes America great again.
Perhaps - perhaps not.
You don't think coming from nowhere, defeating sixteen GOP backed RINOs and all the press and a Rat political machine a quarter century in the making for the Clintons isn't some kind of indication? Based solely - solely, mind you - on backing the principles upon which America is based, which by the way ARE Christian principles? AND directly called Hillary the criminal she actually is, point by point, in public, as NO ONE has EVER been able to do? Or is all of that too subtle for you?
Such can be thankfully seen as God working and evidencing some faith in Divine principles, but such is not a substitute for confessing that Jesus Christ is one's Lord and savior who has changed and calling others to repentance. Do you think the apostles and early church were persecuted and killed, and led others to the Lord by simply taking conservative stands? Moreover, Trump's characteristic outspoken boldness makes his utter silence of any such clear testimony rather profound. How could he keep silent about the single greatest event in his life, and direct souls to Scripture as the basis for his morality? And to the contrary of your premise, Trump's weak (evolved) opposition of Gay "marriage" and abortion hardly testifies to a conversion.
That's not what Daniel1212 said. He said if Trump doesn't pronounce it to his personal satisfaction, it doesn't exist. So don't try to soften what is going on here.
No, that not what Daniel1212 said. He said if Trump does not want to confess his conversion then it did not happen, and i provided a number of clear statements from Scripture which teach what confess means, which is not simply contending for certain conservative values. One can be a conservative and not be a Christian, though one cannot be a Christian and not be a conservative, unless perhaps one is a ignorant mere babe in Christ.
Like I said, it's "visible" to the entire planet. Only Bible textualists seem to be unable to see it.
The conversion of Trump is "visible" to the entire planet? You actually think Trump is basically confessing the Lord Jesus as his Lord and Savior as defined by the NT? I dare say if he even began to testify of the single greatest event in one's life, and as necessary for all, then that would be what is visible on every media stream in the world.
So HE, Daniel1212, will decide whether scriptural authority was met. He set HIMSELF up as the judge of the application of scripture,
No, that is simply not the case, as instead i appealed to Scripture as the basis for my statements, thus the veracity of them rests upon that warrant, and which means if you disagreed then you needed to debate from Scripture how merely being used of God and contending for some Biblical values is what the NT teaches is confessing the Lord Jesus.
So HE, Daniel1212, will decide whether scriptural authority was met. He set HIMSELF up as the judge of the application of scripture,
Nonsense, and your argument could apply to any contention based on evidence, including what is constitutional, even for certain things Trump contends for. Instead, my claims rested upon manifest Scriptural substantiation, which you did not contend with and now basically resort to the Catholic "you make yourself a little pope, or the liberal "the Bible is open to such interpretation no one can say what it means"
The Catholics and the Protestants have, to all of the most important extents, the SAME Bible. Yet both interpret the SAME words so differently that they declare the other heretics and bound for HELL.
And so based on this you conclude both must be wrong? The fact is that Truth is exclusive for nature, thus there will be divisions, and God did not command man in no uncertain terms that he is to live by every word, quoting Scripture (Dt. 8:3; Mt. 4:4) while providing a inspired writings that are so open to interpretation that no one can be sure what it means, and thus cannot contend even for basic Truths
And which would render your own contention that Trump is a Christian based upon apparent use of God and support of Biblical values to simply be your own vain interpretation. Whether it is or not rests upon the degree of manifest Scriptural warrant, which is what is lacking.
The fact is that those who hold most strongly to Scripture being the accurate and wholly inspired word of God (evangelicals) are the most unified major religious group, which includes a minority of Catholics.
Meanwhile the greatest disparity of beliefs are(not unsurprisingly) mostly found among those who subscribe to your liberal view, such as liberal so-called Protestants, and the liberal majority of Catholics. In addition, although Catholicism (officially at least) and evangelicals actually concur on such basic Biblical truths as the apostles creed professes, the major division btwn Catholics and evangelicals is on Cath beliefs which do not rest upon the weight of Scriptural warrant for their veracity, but upon Cath oral tradition, and for RCs, the premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility, which is unseen and unnecessary in Scripture.
But due to the strong commitment to Truth among those who have a high view of Scripture, then these not only testify to the most unity in basic beliefs, but also to the strongest contentions in debatable issues (which is also true in Catholicism). And the latter certainly exists given the scope of Scripture, but which is not contrary to basics being clear. And that confessing the Lord Jesus does not merely consist of some apparent use of God and contention for certain Biblical principles is exceedingly clear, and you cannot make a case contrary to it.
it seems to me you missed that entire "I know you not" part of Jesus' teachings. You know, what he said towards hypocrites who did "wonders" in His name? That one.
But which is actually your argument, that superman Trump must be a Christian because he has defeated "EVERY demonic power trying to destroy America." Yet the "never knew you" refers to those who work iniquity but only not prophesied, cast out devils and did many wonderful works in the name of Christ, (Matthew 7:22-23) but did not manifest personal love for Christ and His character, and which results in confessing/testifying of Christ while living in characteristic obedience to Him, and repenting when convicted of not doing so.
Note that the religious leaders that opposed the Christian church where not simply opposed to Biblical morality which they professed, but to actually preaching Christ as Lord. While they forbid it, you forbid actually including that as part of Scriptural testimony of being a Christian, and thus it is you who exalt yourself above what is written.
And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard. (Acts 4:18-20)
Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word. (Acts 8:4)
Do you have any doubt that ONLY the power of God could enable Trump to take on - and defeat - EVERY demonic power trying to destroy America? And do you also think such power comes WITHOUT FAITH?
Come on Talisker, you sound like a cultic devotee for whom Trump has become the Messiah! If Trump actually took and on defeated every demonic power trying to destroy America he would have, among other thing, strongly condemned homosexual relations and the agenda driven by them, and abortion, and defeated them, but instead the media is still trying to figure out what is his consistent position on this, have already expressed variant positions. greatly unified in basic beliefs, more so than any other difference Catholics and evangelical Protestants
If the Bible could SAY anything, then there would not be these gigantic rifts in understanding. But the Bible DOESN'T say anything. People like YOU say that it says things,
What? This is pure liberal nonsense, the very thing that liberal depend on, such as that the Bible contains no coherent sexual ethic!
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