THE COST OF FREEDOM

January, 27, 2016 | windhover

[tumblindice]

Last night here, freeper wideawake had the effrontery to state that Finicum, Bundy, et al. were “stealing federal land”.

Go back to sleep, wideawake. We’ll wake you when it’s safe.
Before you do that though—go lick the hand that beats you.

[conservativeimage]

Live free or die.

[NormsRevenge]

Summarial execution ..

It worked at Ruby Ridge, Waco, FT Hood,, ..

No one is innocent in their eyes..

They know you better than your own family, yaknow.

Trust your big gubamint..

Why? You ask? Shame on you.

[conservativeimage]

All of us need to be practicing our own surveillance and partner checkups. Everyone learn how to shoot video, distribute it to the net and check in with a buddy frequently.

[kiryandil]

Hey, I'm just getting some hard licks in on Hillary's Fed lawn jockeys before it becomes "felony conspiracy to impede federal officers" to say mean things about them on the Internet...

Too late, though - I've probably already committed some sort of felony by posting "disagreement" with the ambush murder.

[conservativeimage]

Your independence it the greatest threat to the government. ABOLITION! Bring back con law. Regulate the government.

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Wideawake, do you really, truly believe these guys are trying to "redistribute" federal land? You really think they're "after money and free stuff?"

How about that the feds own huge swaths of land in the west that they use for nothing, and want charge ranchers a fee for letting cows eat the damn grass, or prevent them from using the land altogether? You said that federal land is yours -- well, it's also the Bundy's.

Ranchers are getting hammered -- regulations coming down from the EPA, BLM, NPS, et al, on everything from water usage to trail usage to grazing. The government would rather these ranchers just not exist. These are hardworking, honest Americans trying to make a living off the land that their families have lived from for generations, except that in between the past and now, the government has developed an interest in squelching ranching, and people trying to live their lives be damned in the process.

I maintain that occupying the wildlife reserve was misguided. It wasn't going to end well form the beginning. But these guys are trying to get some national exposure and get other citizens to see what they're up against, and they were trying to help another rancher (which is another story in and of itself).

This didn't have to end with blood. They were misguided, but they weren't hurting anyone. If the feds had just ignored them, they probably would have left on their own.

Now the situation has escalated unnecessarily and even more people, both militia and law enforcement, are at risk of being hurt or killed.

[dware]

So, I regard LaVoy Finicum an honorable man who knew the cost of freedom, and did not shrink from it when his time came.

Ditto. Remember Finicum. Remember Burns.

[luvmysuv]

Based on prior observation with this sort of conflict, wasn’t the ending predictable? Look at who already owns Oregon.

[Godzilla]

You said that federal land is yours -- well, it's also the Bundy's.

Federal lands have increasingly become the domain of the environmental extremist. The common citizen is no longer allowed to recreate or use them to the exclusion of critters and plants. those same lands were historically used to supply timber, minerals and yes - graze livestock - for the good of all americans. the federal gov't no longer looks to the good of all people - only the politically connected greenie.

[Jim W N]

Yes, and NOT the “Con Law” you learned in law school, rife with perversion. It is actually Uncon Law. We have to weed out the truth from the perverse to slash government.

A good start to slashing unlimited federal power is invalidating the counterfeit “Incorporation Doctrine”, followed by the unconstitutional & excessive use of the Commerce Clause, followed by reinforcing the PROPER part of the Necessary and Proper Clause which would men NUKING the unconstitutional Administrative State and their unconstitutional, obnoxious, and unrepresentative regulators and regulations.

In parallel, the power of SCOTUS needs to be cut back to its original constitutional purpose - power to decide ONLY individual Cases and Conservatives NOT make national law.

[wideawake]

While I see the undoubted humor in posting things you would never dare say to my face, what I said remains true and you remain without rational arguments.

I thought this was a forum, not a cheering section for stupid ideas.

[wideawake]

Again, I'm not arguing that the executive departments charged with maintaining and using federal land are doing a good job - because they simply aren't.

But in a republic, random individuals cannot appoint themselves unilateral arbiters of assets owned by the republic.

Those lands aren't the Bundys' to dispose of, they have no authority to adjudicate title, and by arrogating it to themselves they are inviting a general state of anarchy.

As far as escalation is concerned, these guys were subject to arrest for what they'd already done, and the feds watchdd them travel around, hold public meetings, etc. They had a lot of opportunities to make their point on national TV. They could not reasonably expect to flout the law indefinitely.

[Talisker]

Yes, and NOT the “Con Law” you learned in law school, rife with perversion. It is actually Uncon Law. We have to weed out the truth from the perverse to slash government.

A good start to slashing unlimited federal power is invalidating the counterfeit “Incorporation Doctrine”, followed by the unconstitutional & excessive use of the Commerce Clause, followed by reinforcing the PROPER part of the Necessary and Proper Clause which would men NUKING the unconstitutional Administrative State and their unconstitutional, obnoxious, and unrepresentative regulators and regulations.

In parallel, the power of SCOTUS needs to be cut back to its original constitutional purpose - power to decide ONLY individual Cases and Conservatives NOT make national law.

[Jim W N]

Thanks for the resounding and EXPLODING affirmation. If there were enough of us, I believe we could make it happen...

:)

[windhover]

Sadly; all too predictable as, I am sure, it was to LaVoy Finicum also.

[servantboy777]

The question that burns in my mind is, Why in the hell did the bulk of the leaders of this action...leave the refuge?

It just seems they were lulled into believing they had safe travel to their destination.

This is not my hill to defend, but if it were, I would never have split the group. I would never have had all the leaders together outside the refuge to be captured or killed. Either it was a deception that motivated them or really crummy tactics on the part of the militiaman.

Not trying to be critical, but makes no sense. They should have sensed the ferals were about to make a move. Why then weaken the refuge? Seems they'd have began fortifying.

[windhover]

All good questions. My guess, at this point, is that their leadership believed deep in their gut that the Feds would not be foolish enough to fire on them. Now an issue has been created by LaVoy Finicum’s death that exceeds the BLM protest by comparison; and has the potential for drawing in Militia from all over the country.

It seems the Federals refuse to learn the simple truth of Ruby Ridge, Waco, and yes Wounded Knee II, that people who are willing to die for what they believe can only be killed but never defeated. Others will pick up the fallen flag of their belief in freedom; and in even larger numbers carry on the fight against injustice.

[windhover]

All good questions. My guess, at this point, is that their leadership believed deep in their gut that the Feds would not be foolish enough to fire on them. Now an issue has been created by LaVoy Finicum’s death that exceeds the BLM protest by comparison; and has the potential for drawing in Militia from all over the country.

It seems the Federals refuse to learn the simple truth of Ruby Ridge, Waco, and yes Wounded Knee II, that people who are willing to die for what they believe can only be killed but never defeated. Others will pick up the fallen flag of their belief in freedom; and in even larger numbers carry on the fight against injustice.

[servantboy777]

I feel bad for them. Again, not a hill I'd choose to defend, but understand their frustrations.

When they chose to take over the refuge, these guyz put themselves on the line. Prison or fight. This is why I'm a bit confused.

Once you cross that line and commit to something like that, no one other than folks alongside ya are your friends....except the infiltrator among them recording their conversations and turning it over to the other side. But that said, they committed. It was very foolish in my book to move outside their perimeter.