Posted on 01/02/2016 9:59:00 PM PST by magglepuss
Is Steven Avery guilty?
The stupid mean comments above don’t take into account that this was a unique case with lots of huge question marks, and yes, it does show some human nature flaws in the system. This is thought provoking and I hope the cases are retried. It does make you wonder how many potentially innocent guys are behind bars.
I believe both men are innocent. I think Stevens would have given up by now and resigned himself to jail life if he were guilty. I think he was framed for this, not that he’s a good guy. And I believe the nephew was completely innocent and really deserves to win a civil trial with plenty of $$$ - he was mistreated. As a mom of a kid with special needs I am just appalled that we aren’t taking better care of the helpless among us.
Hahaha! That’s what I was thinking.
Is he guilty? That’s the question that wasn’t answered because the documentary provided evidence that events surrounding the trial produced reasonable doubt. So the answer is until he is not guilty until he receives a fair trial untainted by evidence produced by those who framed him the first time he was accused of the crime of rape.
Should say he is NOT quilt until he is retried...
And I even previewed before I posted. Sheesh!
GUILTY. Not quilt. I hate auto correct.
I stumbled upon this Netflix movie and soon became addicted. My opinion, from someone who has spent most of his life participating in the criminal justice system.(good guy) Avery was a poor White Trash boy who was victimized by an entrenched, systemically, annd generationally, corrupt system. He beat them the first time. The system doubled down on the second go round to get their conviction and maintain their civic invincibility. All evidence as I interpreted it was bogus. The Toyota key was planted,bone fragments in burn pit planted, blood evidence in her car stolen from evidence and planted. The retarded nephew was slam dunked to bolster the case.. The entire evidence recovery effort and securing of the scene was laughable. The FBI blood test was predisposed in favor of the prosecution. Key information was continually withheld from the jury. The entire fiasco should have been declared mistrial. There should have been a Federal investigation. This is only one small town system in a huge country full of small towns. Who does the system favor? They got their conviction. Nothing more to see here!
You betcha!
Is he guilty?
___
Based on what I saw and heard on Netflix, neither Steven Avery nor his nephew, Brendan Dassey, is guilty of murder. On the other hand, law enforcement officers, prosecutors, judges and juries are all culpable in these apparent miscarriages of justice.
The question isn’t whether he’s innocent or guilty. It’s whether he was accorded due process under law. He was tried. Evidence was presented, testimony was given and rebutted. Rulings were made, and ultimately, the decision was handed over to a jury, which returned a verdict.
That the verdict was “guilty beyond a shadow of doubt” is absurd, given the evidence we saw in the documentary. But due process was served, and that’s as close as we get to “justice” in this system.
You should also note that the state appellate and supreme courts denied his requests for a retrial, so the case has been thoroughly reviewed.
Be careful of “trial by camera.”
Breathe
Actually re the burn barrel, I thought the defense team’s explanation not only exonerates Avery but points to / proves that she was burned elsewhere and transported in burnt remains to his site.
There is no reason for him to have murdered her and burnt the body and then put bits in a barrel and elsewhere. But logic dictates that the framers needed to transport the remains in a barrel or something.
This may be where they could get some new scientific evidence to open a new trial: can burn fragments tell what they were burned with? If evidence of non-body remains are still saved, perhaps it can be proven that her bones were not burned with rubber / plastic / metal car parts that were thrown in. The way you can tell (without microscopic evidence) when a meat was cooked over a certain type of wood.
But you do understand the juxtaposition of this case after Avery’s previous rape conviction?? You saw how much he looked like the actual rapist. And he was convicted, due process and all that. He was wholly innocent and spent about 20 years locked up for a crime he had NOTHING to do with. It does happen. And the second case has MORE doubt than the first had. Plus motive for the county to frame him.
I watched the entire program in one long afternoon and evening. Amazing story..the Gestapo tactics employed by the “investigators” were surreal to watch. I am amazed that this entire travesty held up on appeal.
Here’s my question..At any time, was either one offered or requested a polygraph?
The first case against him was absolutely a wrongful conviction and set up. IIRC, the prosecution withheld evidence from the defense and DNA eventually exonerated him but 18 years in prison because he refused to admit guilt. His sister said for everything he was, he would always fess up when he did something and the fact that he wouldn't was her first indication he was innocent. A 36 million dollar wrongful conviction suit was filed and the Sheriff's office took it very personal. He was forced to settle for just under half a million because he needed to hire counsel. The police department tried to tell the SO they had the wrong guy from the start and the SO buried it. It was shortly after the lawsuit was filed that the dead girl's vehicle was found on his property, in a very strange place and with tree limbs tossed over it. The victim's Aunt found the vehicle and her behavior on the stand was downright bizarre. A Sheriff's officer who was involved in both cases called dispatch a couple of days before the vehicle was found on Avery's property and read the missing girl's plate to the dispatcher. The dispatcher advised it was the plate of the missing girl. When questioned, the SO "didn't recall" calling dispatch.
The car key found on the floor was the most alarming aspect. It wasn't there when the place was originally tossed, as testified to by another officer but miraculously showed up when they went back....and was pointed to by a detective involved in the original case - all the while the Sheriff's office was to have no involvement in this case as ordered by the court (by someone, anyway).
Brandon is in my mind, functionally retarded and absolutely was railroaded into saying whatever they needed him to say. His mother is barely more intelligent, as is most of the family. She did not know her rights or that of her son's.
We both feel the Avery's are innocent.
But do you understand what I mean when I say it was the way the question was asked? Be civil.
I think maybe but I’m not sure if it was in the first case(rape) or the murder case. I need to re-watch some parts.
He looked like the rapist from the composite drawing the sheriffs department did and they had Avery’s mugshots available to them. Also the rape victim said her rapist eyes were blue not brown. Another thing I noticed was Avery is not very tall. How tall is Gregory Allen? I searched but I could not find the answer.
Besides, if you're basing your whole analysis of this case on the documentary, you're only seeing part of the picture. The jury, on the other hand, saw it all.
Yes, mistakes happen. Innocent men are convicted. And, far more often, guilty men go free. It's not a perfect system; it's only better than anything else.
However, for whatever reason, it didn't. And, under the system, the verdict stands unless contravened by some other process under the law.
The wild card in any jury trial is always the jury. I highly doubt this one heeded the judge's instruction to decide based solely on the evidence and the testimony, regardless of personal prejudices. If it had, I don't see any way they could have voted to convict.
I didn’t realize the woman who found the car on Avery’s property was related to the victim.
Just. Wow.
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