Dear Apple: Please be nice to Microsoft

Business Insider ^ | 08/02/2015 | MATT WEINBERGER

[amigatec]

You confusing IBM Mainframes with PC’s.

Most people just buy whatever is on the shelf at the Store.

Like I said the majority of PC users don't give a crap about IBM mainframes.

[amigatec]

You ask somebody what kind of Computer they have, and most of them will answer with, I always buy Dell, or I have an HP, or I bought an Acer Laptop. They will NEVER call it an IBM, you can't walk into any Computer store in the country and buy an IBM computer.

Then ask them what operating System it has, and they may tell you Windows, you ask them which version, and most don't have a clue.

When their computer acts up, they what to buy a new one, they almost never repair the old one.

I work for a VERY large business, and a good portion of the employees don't have a clue about whats inside their work PC.

P.S. The backend server is running on OpenVMS, but this is well hidden.

[tacticalogic]

You confusing IBM Mainframes with PC’s.

Most people just buy whatever is on the shelf at the Store.

Like I said the majority of PC users don't give a crap about IBM mainframes.

I'm not confusing IBM Mainframes with PC's. I'm just looking at the historical factors and events that resulted in what's "on the shelf at the store" being computers from a wide range of manufacturers, but all using Intel processors and Microsoft operating systems. The average end user that uses a PC at work doesn't have to give a crap about IBM mainframes. They just have to recognize that it'll be convenient to buy a home pc that runs the same OS and can run the same applications they're used to at work.

Whether they know or care that their company uses IBM mainframes is irrelevant. They don't have to know or care that the events and decisions that led up to that being a Microsoft OS running on their work desktop started with the company running IBM mainframes. They just have to know that if they buy a Windows PC, they pretty much already know how to use it.

[tacticalogic]

They will NEVER call it an IBM, you can't walk into any Computer store in the country and buy an IBM computer.

Now, yes. Back in the early '80's when the events that laid the groundwork for where we are to day were being played out, if someone had a home PC, it could very well have been IBM.

[tacticalogic]

I was working as a systems engineer for large police department. They had a mix of PCs and Macs. I wrote code enabling their equipment to communicate to state and federal criminal databases. Quite a few cops were fond of using Macs.

I was working for a bank holding company, and they were doing everything from 3270 dumb terminals. Which scenario would you consider most representative of the average corporate enterprise network back then?

[roadcat]

Which scenario would you consider most representative of the average corporate enterprise network back then?

Doesn't matter. You asked when I was working with Macs and IBM integration. I told you, and explained the environment. You seem to be jumping around in order to nitpick against Apple - I don't care for an argument of that nature. I supported many different platforms; they're all just tools.

I did work in a unique environment. I had security clearance, and had to be careful with the data, particularly in interfacing to the state (CLETS) and feds. What I worked on was not average at all, much of it was in machine language or assembler. Besides the police, I also worked coding programs for fire departments - they have all manner of things to track from hydrants to vehicles. Also worked in payroll systems, tax collection, geographic systems, etc. Never for a bank. Also for hospital systems networked across country. Spec'd and built equipment racks and installed servers, installed and maintained routers, installed and maintained controllers and modems for large networks. 3270 dumb terminals were a minor part of things I maintained. In the early 1990s I transitioned to Novell server support, then NT and Windows server support as well as Lotus Domino database and SQL database support, although still building servers. Apple was just a very tiny bit of what I worked on.

[Swordmaker]

I joined the thread just as a matter of discussion, but didn't realize how bad an out and out war there is here between the iOS and WIN factions. It got ugly........ Including unsolicted nasty Freepmail.

One minor correction, catfish. Apple Macs run on OS X, an User Interface layer that runs on top or UNIX™, iOS runs on Apple's mobile devices such as iPhones, iPads, and iPod touches made since about 2007. iOS is a subset of UNIX™ and OS X. Apple Watch OS is also a subset of UNIX™ as is AppleTV and CarPlay OS.

iOS's main competitor and opponent should rightfully be said to be Google's Android. There is a war going on there with Samsung being the primary mover with minor players also competing. Google is behind a lot of it too.

I've seen the anti-Apple Hate Brigade members attack innocent Mac users for just making a comment in an Apple thread. Some time ago, some of the worst of their ilk chased a female Mac user and a new Freeper out of a thread on the first time she ever commented with vile attacks. These haters told her she was only a Mac user because. like all Mac users, she was too stupid to use a "real" computer. It got really ugly. The perpetrators of that gang-up attack aren't on FR anymore. Unfortunately neither is she. That was years ago. . . it's a lot better now.

[tacticalogic]

Doesn't matter. You asked when I was working with Macs and IBM integration. I told you, and explained the environment. You seem to be jumping around in order to nitpick against Apple - I don't care for an argument of that nature. I supported many different platforms; they're all just tools.

In terms of understanding why Microsoft operating systems dominate business environments today, I think it does matter. I'm not looking to "nitpick Apple". I'm looking at the history of events, decisions that were made at critical junctures, and what the long-term consequences of those decisions and events have been and how they've shaped the situation as it stands today.

[Swordmaker]

“In other words, mad_as_he$$, it was NOT a company policy to employ underage workers. “
Now you are just making stuff up. Just like a cultist Prius owner. Show me where I said that on this thread.

My real problem with Apple is that they DELIBERTLY chose to make obscene profits (and enrich the Chi-coms) by having products made in the China.

China allows teenagers(Under 18) to work in a factory environment. I have a big problem with cultists who defend that situation. — Reply #17 written by mad_as_he$$

It was YOU who connected those two things as a reason why Apple should be condemned with NO evidence that underage workers actually were employed on Apple's products! YOU wrote it, you intended that readers make the connection, and therefor you said it ON THIS THREAD. I have rebutted you and now you try to deny ever saying it? That's rich. How very LIBERAL of you!

Hypocrite! You are the cultist here. . . your Microsoft can do no wrong. It was Microsoft X-Boxes that were being made where the spate of suicides occurred that were blamed on Apple. . . not Apple products. It was again MICROSOFT X-boxes that were being assembled when 200 or so of those workers went on strike and went up on the roof and threatened mass suicide if they were not allowed more overtime. . . NOT Apple products workers!

These are easily learned facts if you would get your head out of your posterior and learn some. . . instead of swallowing the propaganda being pushed by organizations with AGENDAS who just happen to use Apple because they get more attention by using the largest company in the world instead of one that doesn't get as much attention. If you read down beyond the LEDE you often even find those facts in the articles themselves, and Apple's connection is only in the headline. . . and does not occur in the body of the article except possibly to mention a reference that the company involved also works on Apple products somewhere else!

[tophat9000]

What a profound load of crap.

The point was apple user that seem to not be aware of anything outside of apple....and think Apple people it isthe whole world...

Microsoft, Apple, Linux/Android is a GM vs Ford vs Chrysler type battle...its should be be same good natured debate ...

But a large number Apple people act more like hardcore leftist Obama moon-bats went their god is dissed....in other words irrational wingnuts

You.like Apple product because you know and use them...your familiar with them...just because you know Apple that does not make it better or easier to use for anyone else

[Swordmaker]

Asked and answered. Stop making up stuff I never posted.

You did indeed say it. You've been declaring it throughout this thread:

"I don’t defend any of it because I am not a cult member. Computers and phones are just tools to me; not how I identify my self worth or position in life.

If you went to 100 Apple cult members with a petition to allow 16 yo’s to work in factory jobs in the US most would be against it. That is what I object too."— Reply #30 written by mad_as_he$$

Now you are trying to deny you've ever stated what you very much did say.

You've been hoist on your own petard and hurled over the horizon. . . WOW! What a piece of work.

[Swordmaker]

Nonsense. I have two 4S's running iOS 8 and they do just fine with it.

Don't you love how people who don't use Apple tell us who do how bad they are???? Amazing how incompetent we must be to not know how well our products work, isn't it?

[Swordmaker]

And your point is?

Wasted on you.

No, it's a non sequitur. There was NOT ONE PERTINENT THING IN THAT LINK to this topic. You wasted bandwidth and my time, as well as everyone else's who bothered to link to it due to your rational Apple delusions. Thanks for playing. If you have a point, make it, don't post obscure metaphorical articles that list five events in Steve Jobs' life that did not prove what you claimed and in fact have NOTHING to do with what you claimed. I challenged you to provide EVIDENCE of Steve Jobs' choosing to not develop networking for the Mac that could connect to IBM mainframes. You have NOT been forthcoming. I am forced to conclude you don't have anything to back up your story.

[Swordmaker]

Ah, yes, the ad hominem reappears on a per paragraph basis. First, it makes your post sound like it was written by a 16 year old. Second, 16 year olds do not work in Apple factories. The factories Apple uses sign contracts to require workers older than 16.

One small correction. . . Apple's contracts are written to prevent workers under 18, not 16.

[Swordmaker]

As far as 16 yo working in factories that supply Apple - I never said that on this thread so - you are still a liar. Your own local cult leader admitted that over 400 were found by audits - so once again you are a liar. Typical cult pablum.

No sir, I stated that 419 out of 1.2 million workers over a seven year period ending in 2013 were uncovered in an audit. That does not make anyone a liar except YOU. . . they were not HIRED as under age workers nor did I state they were under 16. I, in fact stated, these workers used counterfeit IDs. The companies involved were victims of fraud. YOU again use calumny to assault people in this thread. . . insults and ad hominems. YOU are the one who needs things spelled out for you because you cannot understand complex ideas and facts.

You have deliberately implied that Apple has deliberated moved it's operations to China so that they could take advantage of China's policy of employing underage workers. You've done it multiple times. . . Your purpose is to leave the obvious impression in readers' minds that Apple is deliberately employing underage workers. . . and you have now claimed that I have stated that there were underage employees. . . without giving the facts behind how they were discovered. . . or how they were hired as frauds. YOU SIR are the FRAUD here. YOU ARE THE LIAR.

The games you are playing and the misrepresentations of your statements give conservatism a bad name. You behave like a miserable LYING LIBERAL POLITICIAN, refusing to be pinned down to the truths of what you said!

[Swordmaker]

That point is that Apple wasn't going to lift a finger to get their computers to talk to an IBM mainframe. It fell to 3rd party vendors to make that happen. IBM didn't need to get cards from IRMA - they built their own, and would sell you a PC that would do it right out of the box.

Your point is totally invalid because they did "lift a finger" and their computers did indeed have the software and the means to connect to the IRMA boards. You love to nitpick at things you don't know. . . but we do. Apple made the interfaces from the Apple to the devices. SHEESH!

I am STILL waiting for your evidence that Steve Jobs said that Apple would not do anything to connect to the rest of the computing world. . .

[Swordmaker]

When in the 1980's were you doing this? The MAC Driver Museum doesn't have anything earlier than 1991, and that's the earliest reference I can find for MAC IRMA adapters.

And none of those are there. . . There were more elsewhere. Why do you think that was at all complete? That's just a collection of what some guy named Bhavesh Patel has found. No one claims it is comprehensive. You were claiming stuff about Token Ring. . . but a lot of that was built in to early Macs. . .

New in box — Apple Token Ring Network Interface Card for Macintosh NUBUS Card

NUBUS from 1987.

In January 1983, Steve Jobs announced that Apple would, instead of developing AppleNetwork, they would be supporting IBM's Token Ring. Later, in the interests of cost and licensing, Apple developed AppleTalk on the AppleBus and Apple also announced that AppleBus networks could be attached to, and would appear to be a single node within, a Token Ring system.

As I said, we were DOING these things. . . So much for your claims.

[Swordmaker]

Fair enough. You shouldn't find it surprising if IBM mainframe shops feel the same way about Apple, for exactly the same reason.

Or not:

---

IBM could become the biggest buyer of Apple MacBooks

By Chuong Nguyen — Saturday, August 1, 2015 — TechRadar through Economic Times

In addition to its partnership with Apple to build enterprise apps for iOS devices, IBM could also be making a big leap and make a significant switch to Macs internally.

The former Apple rival was said to adopt as many as 50,000 MacBooks for employee use by the end of 2015, but that number could be much higher. If accurate, and if plans pan out, up to 75% of IBM employees could make the switch from Lenovo-branded ThinkPad notebooks to MacBook laptops.

The plan

Jeff Smith, IBM's Chief Information Officer, said in an interview that he had spoken with Apple's Chief Information Officer to increase Mac adoption at IBM.

"I'd like to be able to offer these to everyone that can use it," Smith said during the videotaped interview. "We've got to find a way to make the overall cost the same or lower than PCs to make that happen."

According to Smith, Apple said that its largest corporate customer orders 25,000 MacBooks a year. Smith said that he told Apple that IBM alone could consume 150,000 to 200,000 Macs annually, or up to eight times the number of MacBooks Apple sells to its biggest enterprise client currently.

The adoption of 200,000 MacBooks is also four times the initial number that was leaked from an internal IBM memo.

In another segment of the interview, Smith said that he had spoken with Apple CEO Tim Cook of the potential switch, noting that between 50% to 75% of IBM employees could ditch their ThinkPads for MacBooks.

We've reached out to IBM for comment on Smith's interview, and we'll update the post when we hear back.

Walking away from a legacy

If these plans play out, IBM would be walking away from systems that it had once built to compete against Apple's computers. In 2005, IBM shed its hardware business and sold its ThinkPad and PC business to Lenovo.

Most recently, Apple and IBM laid the past to rest and began collaborating on enterprise apps. IBM committed to building 100 enterprise apps as part of the partnership, and the companies are working together on HealthKit and ResearchKit data.

Apple benefits as it's able to push more of its hardware to enterprise users, and IBM gets to promote its cloud, analytics and business services.

[tacticalogic]

As I said, we were DOING these things. . . So much for your claims.

That adapter sure as hell isn't from the mid 1980's is it?

[tacticalogic]

Or not:

How many IBM mainframe shops do you think are going to switch to using MACs because IBM bought it's mobile development team a bunch of MacBooks?