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1 posted on 06/10/2015 9:55:46 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges

The beginning of the end of tonal music.


2 posted on 06/10/2015 9:56:06 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges

Wagner’s orchestral works are gorgeous and sublime.

When the guys and gals start singing though — not so much.


3 posted on 06/10/2015 9:57:16 AM PDT by BenLurkin (The above is not a statement of fact. It is either satire or opinion. Or both.)
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To: sitetest

Ping


4 posted on 06/10/2015 9:57:53 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges; All

The Tristan Chord

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWg_cZkDho


5 posted on 06/10/2015 9:59:37 AM PDT by BenLurkin (The above is not a statement of fact. It is either satire or opinion. Or both.)
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To: Borges

“Wagner’s music: It’s not as bad as it sounds.”


6 posted on 06/10/2015 10:02:33 AM PDT by mbarker12474
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To: Squawk 8888

Ping


7 posted on 06/10/2015 10:02:54 AM PDT by To Hell With Poverty (All freedom must be transported in bottles of 3 oz or less. - Freeper relictele)
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To: Borges
Stephen Fry - The Tristan Chord (youtube)
15 posted on 06/10/2015 10:11:58 AM PDT by tellw
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To: Borges

To our modern ears, it’s nothing more complex than a half diminished chord, Fm7flat5. But that jazz sound didn’t “exist” back then, so it cannot be dismissed so casually. Even “today” it is not very common to start a tune with that kind of chord. Reminiscent of Thelonius Monk “Round Midnight”.


16 posted on 06/10/2015 10:12:03 AM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder
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To: Borges
Gesualdo was writing out Wagnerian chords 250 years before Wagner was writing our Wagnerian chords. cf. here
18 posted on 06/10/2015 10:16:42 AM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: Borges
For that matter, what about the chords in the first movement of Mendelssohn's Organ Sonata #2 in c minor (here)? They are just as dissonant, even if the overall effect is tonal. The usual schtick is that Wagner was a dissonance-loving pagan and Mendelssohn was a stick-in-the-mid Christian, but Mendelssohn's Christianity didn't block him from hearing and producing tension in the midst of a world that was meant to be ordered.
23 posted on 06/10/2015 10:31:16 AM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: Borges
Thank you for posting this article. I've generally disliked classically themed music written since the late 19th century, but until reading this article I never knew when precisely this transition occurred or why. After this point composers started using "dramatic" dissonant chords like tired cliches and the music of this period started sounding like fingernails on slate chalkboards. Here it is, the exact moment in history classical music turned ugly!

I think that music changed at this time in history the same way that art changed. Up to this point the aesthetics of art and music had both been oriented toward encapsulating beauty. Beauty being defined by St. Aquinas as the properties of integrity, due proportion, and clarity as God intended. A simpler definition was offered by St. Pope John Paul the Great as "the good made visible". Some people may like to go to museums to see portraits of rotting corpses painted with real feces or go to concerts to hear violins scraped to sound like dying rabbits, but not me.

After the mid-nineteenth century the working definition of art finally fell victim to the godless rationalism of the Atheistic Enlightenment. Art was reduced to a mere vehicle for emotion and ultimately power. As illustrated by the use of Wagner's works as the soundtrack to the Third Reich, this perversion of art eventually leads to its use for evil.

32 posted on 06/10/2015 10:55:01 AM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: Borges

A deliberate utilization of a dis-chord. It works in evoking a certain reaction in the listener, which is what the artist intended.


36 posted on 06/10/2015 11:34:04 AM PDT by semaj (.People get ready, Jesus is coming!)
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To: Borges

I think we played this in high school band. It was ... interesting. Most of the poor kids seemed a bit confused.

(I can understand why)

Personally, I found it amusing, but then again, I played the drums (etc)


42 posted on 06/10/2015 12:27:20 PM PDT by Kommodor (Terrorist, Journalist or Democrat? I can't tell the difference.)
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To: Borges
Nothing particularly shocking to mine ears here.
45 posted on 06/10/2015 2:56:46 PM PDT by ADemocratNoMore (Jeepers, Freepers, where'd 'ya get those sleepers?. Pj people, exposing old media's lies.)
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To: Borges
That rascally g# minor6 will get you every time yessiree
52 posted on 06/10/2015 5:24:23 PM PDT by BigEdLB (They need to target the 'Ministry of Virtue' which has nothing to do with virtue.)
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To: Borges
Randy Bachman describes and plays the opening chord of "Hard Day's Night"
54 posted on 06/10/2015 5:31:28 PM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Borges
I just found a review I did a few years ago. As it pertains to a "modern" piece it may be germane to the discussion.

The Cleveland Orchestra preforms Dream/Window by Tōru Takemitsu

A review 9/26/2010

Riding in my car with the radio tuned to WCLV. It was announced that the Cleveland Orchestra would be playing a work by Tōru Takemitsu. Shirley and I looked at each other and we each said "Who?". Perhaps it would have been better had I remained ignorant of this composer.

A few days later, WCLV broadcast the entire performance. It appears that Tōru Takemitsu was commissioned by a Kyoto bank, or perhaps an industrial firm or civic institution to write a piece celebrating the city. I cannot help but think, that, upon hearing this work, the commissioner would have asked Takemitsu to return the commission and then commit seppuku to atone for the embarrassment he caused not only to the institution but the city and the artist as well.

The piece is entitled Dream/Window and proports to envision the view of a Japanese garden through a window and through the window of a dream. A 55 gallon drum of Windex would have done a great deal to help this piece, as the view from this window at high noon with not a cloud in the sky is darker than that of the deepest twilight.

Mind you, I like weird music, very weird music, hell, I make music myself that is so far out of the mainstream that most listeners would run out of the room rather than listen to another moment of one of my works. It gives me hope, though, perhaps someday my noodlings will be given a performance by one of the great orchestras on the planet as they are no worse (or better).

I would probably like this piece by Tōru Takemitsu in another setting, as chill-out music or as a film score. It does not belong at Severance Hall in the company of giants, and, sadly, it was a colossal waste of the talented musicianship found in the Cleveland Orchestra. This is not to say anything bad about the Cleveland Orchestra, as I believe that their true genius shone through in this performance in that they were able to play such execrable music with such virtuosity.

Normally, the orchestra tunes up, the conductor comes on stage and the music starts. I can only assume that the orchestra tuned up beforehand, but after the conductor came on stage and started playing Dream/Window, it sounded like the orchestra was tuning up all over again, not that one could have easily noticed the difference when listening to this piece. This marks the first time that I've heard the orchestra tuning up just before the work was over. In fact, I wounder if the orchestra ever stopped tuning up throughout the performance.

Takemitsu was obviously a Trekkie, as in this piece the Enterprise quickly becomes lost in the Nebulous Nebula and nobody can find their way out. Not once did the Captain (or the composer) consult a road map, stop at a gas station to ask directions or use his GPS. While wandering aimlessly through this piece, the listener is, on one occasion, attacked by huge minor chords that go on for far too long, (as did this piece), and is occasionally aware of disembodied bits and pieces of melodies floating by outside the window, but which never stop in and say hello.

One just knows that the Atomic Mutant Monsters will be showing up any moment now, and although a little change of pace would have been welcome, sadly, in the end they never did.

"Daddy, Daddy, are we there yet?

"Shadup ya little So & So or I'll feed you to Godzilla"

"Oh please do, at least I won't have to listen to any more of this".

57 posted on 06/11/2015 1:08:46 AM PDT by ADemocratNoMore (Jeepers, Freepers, where'd 'ya get those sleepers?. Pj people, exposing old media's lies.)
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