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The Battle of Midway Ruined the War Against ISIS
The Fiscal Times via Yahoo! Finance ^ | June 9, 2015 5:30 AM | Andrew L. Peek

Posted on 06/10/2015 8:11:38 AM PDT by Pan_Yan

...

First, the history. Although by 1944 the war’s outcome was never in doubt, if all efforts failed the Soviet Army would eventually have crushed the Reich by itself. Victory at that point was a national and industrial effort, and would belong to the countries with the most steel plants and masses of citizens under arms.

Midway was different. It was not a national effort but instead a battle of individuals, a rickety shootout by a few highly trained people under extremely confused conditions, and — incredibly — the underdog won. There’s no reason the United States, with a second-string commander, green troops and two-and-a-half aircraft carriers, should have been able to defeat the Japanese with their four carriers and the most experienced planes, pilots and admirals in the world.

Had Japan annihilated the rest of the Pacific Fleet carriers, it would have taken Midway. With land-based planes on Midway, it would have taken Hawaii. With Hawaii…well, who knows? Maybe San Francisco, maybe Alaska. Maybe pause in the Pacific and knock out the British in India. And then maybe peace, under a new Pax Japania.

...

In the long run, the Battle of Midway and other boldface WWII names like D-Day and the Bulge have perhaps warped America’s national memory of conflict. War in the public consciousness — the right wars, anyway — became a mostly clean duel of professionals, what we are pleased to call the “American way of war,” rather than the extended contests of national will and resources they more accurately resemble.

World War II erased every memory of the groaning exertion of the Civil War, which was something similar to what the Soviets were fighting against the Nazis.

(Excerpt) Read more at finance.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: isis; isiswar; midway; war
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Interesting read.
1 posted on 06/10/2015 8:11:38 AM PDT by Pan_Yan
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To: Pan_Yan

The author nonsensically states that Soviet victory was inevitable because of a larger population and more resources, but then disregards both those factors in asserting that Japan could have defeated the U.S.

He has a point in their somewhere, but picked a very poor analogy to wrap it around.


2 posted on 06/10/2015 8:15:16 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: SampleMan
The author nonsensically states that Soviet victory was inevitable because of a larger population and more resources, but then disregards both those factors in asserting that Japan could have defeated the U.S.

Your point is only partially valid as an analogy. The geographies are totally different, and the definition of victory is totally different. In other words, the author is not saying Japan could have ever beaten the US to the point of invading and occupying.....and it's pretty damned tough to drive tanks across the Pacific. You are trying to make a point with apples and oranges...

3 posted on 06/10/2015 8:17:35 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: Pan_Yan
This person is bereft of knowledge of history and the US industrial capacity.

Assume the scenario unfolded as described American war production would have stepped up and those resources would have been shifted to the Pacific.

There is an interesting website that allows for this situation but shows US and Japanese carrier/plane production.

Even if Midway would have been lost, we were going to swamp Japan in terms of production.

They were going to lose.

4 posted on 06/10/2015 8:18:23 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Pan_Yan
if all efforts failed the Soviet Army would eventually have crushed the Reich by itself.

I don't agree at all. Yes, the Soviets were prepared to struggle forever, but imagine if Hitler never faced a two-front war? Or imagine that Japan, unengaged with the USA, was able to send 1 million troops into Russian the Russian Far-East, and Stalin faced a two-front war?

5 posted on 06/10/2015 8:21:40 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: Pan_Yan

” Soviet Army would eventually have crushed the Reich by itself”

BS.

If we are re-writing history... if Germany only had one front (the Russian) they would have kicked Stalin’s butt. What killed the Reich was two fronts and a poorly executed winter offensive in Russia.


6 posted on 06/10/2015 8:24:12 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: PGR88
if all efforts failed the Soviet Army would eventually have crushed the Reich by itself.

If "by itself" the author actually includes American technology gifts and contribution of 1/3 of the Soviet GNP... sure, maybe.

7 posted on 06/10/2015 8:26:32 AM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: ealgeone
This person is bereft of knowledge of history and the US industrial capacity.

Our adversaries have learned this lesson, we have forgotten it.

The former Warner & Swasey machine tool works, Cleveland OH


8 posted on 06/10/2015 8:27:50 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Resolute Conservative

People seem to forget that the Germans were desperately fighting the British (and Americans to a smaller extent) in North Africa at the time the Soviets turned the Nazis back at Stalingrad. The two front situation did NOT start on June 6th, 1944.


9 posted on 06/10/2015 8:29:57 AM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

Correct and they had to occupy France and the low lands that takes resources.


10 posted on 06/10/2015 8:31:16 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Pan_Yan
I have read something along those lines, but the argument was that the decisive US victories in WW II made the country after 1945 complacent, and almost reckless in foreign policy matters.

The thinking here is that our leaders, and the country in general, came to believe that any conflict the US got involved in would inevitably lead to a decisive US victory.

The “nearness” of the US victories in WW II were forgotten. Only the results were remembered. The US won in the past. Therefore it must win in the future.

Imperial Rome suffered from that same line of thinking, and that contributed to Rome's downfall.

11 posted on 06/10/2015 8:34:52 AM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I holding this lantern? I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: Pan_Yan
First, the history. Although by 1944 the war’s outcome was never in doubt, if all efforts [had] failed[,] the Soviet Army would eventually have crushed the Reich by itself. Victory at that point was a national and industrial effort, and would belong to the countries with the most steel plants and masses of citizens under arms.

Doesn't the author realize that much of the industrial might supporting the Soviet war effort was based in America? I'm sure that there are others here who are far more qualified and who could enumerate all the war goods (armaments and foodstuffs) which the U.S. sent to the U.S.S.R. to be used against the Axis.

Regards,

12 posted on 06/10/2015 8:35:06 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: Resolute Conservative
What killed the Reich was two fronts and a poorly executed winter offensive in Russia.

Yep. German troops were in view of the Kremlin by December 1941. Things went so swimmingly well in the south that they also sent the larger part of their force down to occupy the oil fields and Caucasian region rather than securing Stalingrad. At the time, it was thought that Stalingrad was within days, a couple of weeks tops of being secured.

Even when it was clear that Stalingrad was lost a year or so later, Hitler refused to allow the 6th army to make a tactical withdrawal. Stalingrad was a pile of rubble at the time and of zero strategic importance. Soft Romanian troops were guarding the flanks when the Red Army counterattacked.

13 posted on 06/10/2015 8:37:11 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Pan_Yan
"if all efforts failed the Soviet Army would eventually have crushed the Reich by itself."

Yes, except for the food, clothing, steel, and weapons from the US to Russia. Midway was won by breaking Japan's military code, US ingenuity (The 'sunken' Yorktown was repaired in three days, and sent to play a vital role in the Midway battle(and then sunk 'again')), The US 'Arsenal of Democracy', skilled troops and leaders, and yes, a little bit of luck. It seems the more of the first items, the 'luckier' we got.

14 posted on 06/10/2015 8:40:54 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage (The Stone Age did not end because we ran out of stones)
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To: alexander_busek

You, and everyone else who’s commented, are probably right in questioning the author’s assumption about a Soviet victory. His main point, however, was that Germany was fighting a slow retreat by the time of D-Day. Their expansion days were over.


15 posted on 06/10/2015 8:40:59 AM PDT by Pan_Yan
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To: Pan_Yan
Even if Japan had defeated the U.S. overwhelmingly in the Pacific, we would have probably still developed the bomb and used it one way or the other to beat them.
16 posted on 06/10/2015 8:43:11 AM PDT by Cry if I Wanna
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To: Resolute Conservative
If the Soviet Union had to actually fight the Nazis "by itself", how long would that war had dragged on? 1947? 1950?

Key question: Who had an atomic bomb program? Answer: The Germans.

17 posted on 06/10/2015 8:43:17 AM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

Bingo.


18 posted on 06/10/2015 8:46:08 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Cry if I Wanna

If I remember my history correctly Japan’s goal was to knock out our fleet and force us to the negotiating table for a quick victory. When that didn’t happen Yamamoto and others knew they would be crushed by our industry. You could argue that Japan’s strategy was lost when they bombed Pearl Harbor while our carriers were out to sea.


19 posted on 06/10/2015 8:46:31 AM PDT by Pan_Yan
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Your point is only partially valid as an analogy. The geographies are totally different, and the definition of victory is totally different. In other words, the author is not saying Japan could have ever beaten the US to the point of invading and occupying.....

The author states, "Had Japan annihilated the rest of the Pacific Fleet carriers, it would have taken Midway. With land-based planes on Midway, it would have taken Hawaii. With Hawaii…well, who knows? Maybe San Francisco, maybe Alaska."

...and it's pretty damned tough to drive tanks across the Pacific. You are trying to make a point with apples and oranges...

Its not hard to drive ships across the Pacific. Our ship building capacity dwarfed Japan's. Note these tanks that we "drove" across the Pacific.


20 posted on 06/10/2015 8:46:34 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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