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To: A Formerly Proud Canadian; EveningStar

“The author of this article certainly doesn’t have a clue...”

I think Mr. Martingnoni is spot on with his article. I grew up under the teachings of a Pre-Trib Rapture, as John Nelson Darby and his followers among the ‘Plymouth Brethren’ taught it. I have pondered the question, studied and researched what the Bible says, and today if I were to write an article on this it would likely read like what Mr. Martingnoni wrote in his article.

Pre-Trib Rapture fits well with Darby’s dispensationalism. Scofield was studied Darby’s writings and much of Darby’s teachings influenced Scofield’s Reference Notes. And it spread among may fundamental Christian congregations.

There is another ‘stumbling block’ that is somewhat related. It has to do with Daniel’s ‘70 weeks of years’ and the ‘gap theory’ relating to these years. The 69th week ended when Jesus was baptized by John. The 70th week begins at that moment. It was the ‘week’ of Jesus earthly ministry, cut short at three and a half years by His crucifixion.


255 posted on 05/10/2015 11:57:05 AM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
The concept of the Rapture is a very old concept, found in the writings from as early as 100AD. The Eastern tradition also debated the issue of the Rapture, notably over the writings of Ephraem of Nisibi (306 - 373AD). Justin MArtyr wrote on the issue in Dialogues With Trypho.

Jewish scholars were so stunned with the arrival of Jesus and the miracles He performed that they debated for centuries over whether there were two Messiahs, as a suffering Messiah (Jesus read the passage from Isa 61 to them and stopped before the conquering Messiah is detailed) from the line of Joseph and a conquering Messiah from the line of David.

The same Messiah, Jesus, is fulfilling both roles. But the seventieth week of Daniel, as plainly written in Daniel 9 begins with a contract entered into with Israel, for seven years of Peace and Safety.

The sixty-ninth week ended when Jesus allowed Himself to be ushered into Jerusalem as King, the only time He did so during His first coming to the Earth. The calculation is so precise for the period from the command to rebuild Jerusalem to the entry into Jerusalem that for centuries 'scholars' claimed Daniel had to have been written after Jesus came and was crucified. Even the Book of Daniel itself was doubted by 'scholars', until a clay tablet was found in the base of a tower being excavated in Babylon which named The King and his son, Belshazzar, as dedicating the tower construction. And as you know, Belshazzar was the king in Babylon city when the hand writing on the wall occurred and Babylon fell to the encircling enemy armies.

259 posted on 05/10/2015 12:58:55 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea; A Formerly Proud Canadian; EveningStar
>>It was the ‘week’ of Jesus earthly ministry, cut short at three and a half years by His crucifixion.<<

Oh please. A week contains 7 days and we know that that last week is to be 7 years not 3 1/2. And if you think that 3 1/2 years of Jesus ministry was the time of Jacob's trouble guess again. Also, if that "week" was only 3 1/2 years God still owes Israel 3 1/2 years.

270 posted on 05/10/2015 4:13:37 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
The author is obviously not well versed on the many differing views of 'the end times' held by Protestants world wide. Yes, unfortunately, many Evangelical and Pentecostal churches in North America, and by extension, the English speaking world and much of Africa, due to the missionary outreach by many such churches, seem to be quite enamoured of the idea of a 'pre-trib rapture'. That said, there are millions of Protestant Believers who find Darby's interpretation to be somewhat suspect. And yes, the '69 1/2 weeks' with a gap of over 2,000 years IS certainly a stumbling block. FWIW, the Evangelical Covenant church I was re-baptised in as an adult (after an infant baptist in a different denomination), took a 'partial preterist' view of the 'end times' and 'dispensationalism' was considered to be in error.

While I do not wish to go through a terrible 'tribulation' in my life, at least no more that I already have, I fear that so much of the preaching in N. America points to 'accept Jesus as Saviour, and He will make life easy and prosper you so you can buy your Pastor the new jet he craves needs' (sarc)!

A 'pre-trib rapture' suggests that we will skip all the pain that life can provide. Given that when we are 'in the valley', THAT is where God best shapes and molds us, as we have only He to depend upon. That said, such 'fire' burns away the dross of this world and focuses our attention on Him and His guiding us through such turmoil. Unfortunately, many who come to the Lord may fall away when times get tough. Teaching such as Darby's can lead a believer to despair when times get tough, and lose their faith. Reemember, Jesus instructed us to 'count the cost' of following Him.

I look at what Paul and the disciples and the saints went through, and what Believers are going through in Africa and the Middle East, and I find that a 'pre-trib rapture' makes no sense. We North Americans, are fat, rich and spoiled, versus our Christian brethren in much of the world. For many of us, our only concept of 'persecution' is that we cannot wear a scripture verse on their T-shirt or our kids can no longer pray in school! (And yes, I count myself among the fat, rich, spoiled North Americans!). How would we, who have suffered little, be 'raptured' while millions have suffered and ultimately died for their faith?

If Pastor Darby had not formulated his interpretation, a 'pre-trib rapture' sounds like an ending devised by Hollywood (before it went fully over to the dark side). For me, Jesus' death on the cross and resurrection is the climax, I don't need additional dramatic proof that He is who He claims to be. After all, on the cross He said, "It is finished." The job was done and the battle won. Anything else is anticlimactic.

Instead of focusing on endless debate over the 'end times', we should be focused on spreading the Gospel and 'being the hands and feet' of Jesus. If the Bible is true, and I find nothing contradictory in it, then if I am in Him, it does not matter whether there is a tribulation or not. If I am in Him, Satan CANNOT steal me away, my salvation is assured! Having us focus on how time will wind down is yet another ploy by the Deceiver to take our eyes off Jesus and can cause us to miss what He wants us to do.

274 posted on 05/10/2015 5:38:56 PM PDT by A Formerly Proud Canadian (I once was blind, but now I see...)
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