Posted on 05/05/2015 6:10:22 PM PDT by EveningStar
Question: A friend of mine has been reading the Left Behind books that have all of this stuff about the “Rapture” in them. Is there really going to be a “Rapture” like these books talk about?
Answer: No.The “Rapture” refers to a passage in First Thessalonians 4, where Christians are “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Many Christians believe, and the Left Behind books promote, that this being “caught up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time.
(Excerpt) Read more at aleteia.org ...
There are seven years of that prophecy left.
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>> “Trying to make the word “Gentiles” mean only the lost sheep of the house of Israel is totally counter to scripture.” <<
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Nice strawman, but that is not faintly close to what I said.
A gentile is anyone that is “unclean,” meaning living out of covenant.
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>> “All Israelites were called Jews” <<
Only by those that are totally unread in the scriptures.
The “Lost Sheep of the House of Israel” were never called “Jews” by Yeshua, nor by any of his apostles.
Jews are those that are of the “House of Judah,” the “southern kingdom.” The term usually implied also living under the burden of the Pharisees, but not rigidly so. That included the portions of the tribes of Levi and Benjamin that has traditionally lived in the southern kingdom, thus Paul, a Benjaminite, was of the House of Judah.
Paul was sent to the House of Israel, the dispersed, gentile northern kingdom, often called Ephraim, and the other apostles to the House of Judah for the most part, but they welcomed all that came to Yeshua.
The “People for His Name” are the core of Yeshua’s assembly, which always has included those that sojourn with them. This was stated throughout Tanakh.
You constantly demonstrate your near total lack of understanding of the ancient scriptures.
I think the verse refers to the fact that Adam and Eve set the pattern that all men and women were to emulate in the future. The verse isn’t referring to a non existent mom and dad of Adam and Eve(unless some one wants to try to posit the leaving of the garden as that of leaving the parents...I “ain’t going there) per se. They were the first couple joined together to be “one flesh” and after that all future couples would follow that pattern. The important part of that verse wasn’t the leaving of the parents per se;(though one would hope the couple would leave and not try to move in and take the son’s smelly socks with him and her various skin creams with her)...it was the leaving for the sake becoming one flesh with your spouse. As Adam was one flesh with Eve, so it was expected that all future marriage mind males become one flesh with their wives. That’s all....the colloquial custom Moses speaks of that the Hebrews practiced; was that an offspring leaves and forms his own family separate from the direct influence of his parents. Other cultures due to tradition or poverty may have couples and parents living in fair close proximity to one another if not with each other for periods of time. The verse speaks of men entering a close relationship with a woman while beginning to distance themselves from the parental /child love and protective bonds and their subjection to their parents’ authority. In that sense do they “leave” their parents!
Any attempts to equate such “leaving of parents” with Adam and Eve’s expulsion from the garden would be a misdirection of the verse’s meaning. God never intended men and women to fall out of fellowship with him. He never intended that men should “leave the garden” but to grow and mature as a species under his guidance, to fully self actualize as a race living as matter and spirit.
A man can’t be united in a way that a man needs to be with someone; that is, with his parents. The parents are a completed “one flesh”(”three’s a crowd”)...a man needs a woman so that he can be a completed “one flesh” with his own wife. THAT is the reason WHY..”a man leaves his parents and is united with his wife, and they become one flesh.
If one reads carefully, there are six layers of fulfillment to the 70 week prophecy mentioned.
Two of them have been fulfilled: to make an end of sin, and to make atonement for iniquity, leaving four more to be completed.
There have been shadow fulfillments of the main prophecy, but none have accomplished the “complete destruction.”
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“Couples and parents living in fair close proximity to one another” is a product of living in “walled cities” mostly.
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“It’s a rock monster. It doesn’t have motivation.” ; )
Tribes in tents..nomadic tribes...some eskimo tribes...differences here and there. I read a true story about a modern Chinese couple that weren’t quite ready to be fully married but had been “arranged” since they were children. They went thru the ceremony...spent the wedding night chatting and getting know each other while the families of the bride and groom stayed in the house that night. The “bride” made a small cut on her hand and left a blood stain on the sheets to please the intrusive parents that the “act” had been done. Then early the next morning the couple left and went back to the city, and to their jobs and spent a little more time knowing each other before they decided to consummate for real and then start a family. The period was in the 1930’s before the Japanese invasion and then the communist take over!
>>Paul was sent to the House of Israel<<
Please show you support from scripture for that.
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>>Paul was sent to the House of Israel<<
“Please show you support from scripture for that.”
Matthew 15:24
“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Was any apostle sent to anyone that Yeshua was not sent to?
The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are the people for his name. His assembly.
The election, from the foundation of the world.
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Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.
What part of every nation do you struggle with?
1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Does the term the whole world somehow not register?
Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’
Hint - everyone, the whole world, and every nation includes more than just the descendants of Jacob/Israel.
It is you that struggle with the plain word of God.
Do you think “The Whole World” will be saved?
Do you think the apostles ministered to every person in the world?
Will the whole world fit into the “few” that Yeshua said would find his narrow path?
You know full well that you are exaggerating the intent of the skimpy few verses that you rip out of context to post.
I tire of your profuse dishonesty.
The House of Israel and Those that sojourn with them is not “just the descendants of Jacob” as you so dishonestly attempt to assert here.
There is so much straw coming out of you, you must be a Scarecrow.
Stop running from the word of God!
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Unlike the one verse you repeat over and over?
>>I tire of your profuse dishonesty.<<
I think there are rules against those types of comments. Obviously you have lost the debate and need to resort.
Isn’t it amazing to meet the odd person who believes he/she know more than Paul about to whom Jesus sent Paul? I seem to recall Paul writing that he was the Apostle to the Gentiles, while Peter was the Apostle to the Jews. Then there is that episode in the House of Cornelius, where Peter seems to be opening that kingdom door to the Gentiles (lest we forget those keys Jesus gave to him). How fortunate we are to have a disciple of J M Rood to correct us! /sarc
It is not about what I like or dislike. It is a search for 'truth'. I am a survivor of a 70's rapture doctrine. Course, I did not decide where I would attend church, I was a child, that did as my parents instructed.
I disliked greatly when we the people of these United States allowed that decision to remove the Ten Commandments from the public square, to stand, and I knew that our spiritual plug had been pulled, nationally speaking that is.
Yes, God had Moses pen that Enoch walked with God, and God removed the godly Enoch because of what was happening upon this earth. Revelation 3:10 is a promise to those that have the same doctrine of the church in Philadelphia and That description begins in Revelation 3:7 I use the King James because of the Strong's, I can look for myself to see if the words the translators picked actually 'mean' what is given. Verse 10 applies to the 'sound' doctrine taught in the church at Philadelphia, which begins in verse 7.
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; 'These things saith He That is Holy, He That is True, He That hath the key of David, (wonder is this the same key that Peter was given?) He That openeth, and no man shutteth, and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: (Works? God keeps track of works?) behold , I (Christ, not a flesh being) have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, (not trial) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly; hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Who tempted Christ and what was Christ offered to attempt to tempt Christ? Matthew 4:1-11; Mark 1:12-13; Luke 4:1-14; Three different writers record the 'temptation'. The temptation is for our warning as to what would be offered to seduce Christians into worshiping a different Jesus.
Paul wrote in ICorinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples (examples): and they are written for our admonition, (warning) upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. The so called Old Testament is the script by which events that happened before would once again take place. So that the student, follower of Christ would NOT be deceived.
God is able to protect those that love and follow His commandments without having to rapture them out. But as it is also written, these are predestined to fulfill their duties. Paul is the prime example of one predestined, and in spite of what Paul was doing to 'stop' Christ, he was elected to write the majority of the New Testament. Oh, Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin. There are twelve tribes not one.
God chose His election because they had already demonstrated they could be trusted to follow Him. Just as God chose Paul. Why was Paul not raptured out or any number of those that loved God? Why are some so special they are treated fairer than even Christ? I do not get this mentality. Followers of Christ and God did not fair well in this earth age why should some get special treatment.
There will be a revival like the world has never seen when the Rapture happens and so many are left because they 'had no oil in their lamps.' That revival will be led by 144,000 children of Israel, the Two witnesses, and an Angel.
There is going to be a revival (tribulation) like the world has never seen when sugar daddy promises a rapture. Paul describes this revival, and man is it already underway.
Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God,
that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Paul does NOT say have your bags packed for the first jet/UFO out of here.
12 For we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in 'high' places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the 'whole armour of God,
that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. (NOT fly away)
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, (word of God) and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints, .........
Curious how the parable of the virgins gets thrown in as part of the rapture doctrine. Matthew 25:1
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps and took NO oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried,
they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made,
'Behold, the bridegroom cometh;
go ye out to meet him.'
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, 'Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.'
9 But the wise answered, saying, 'Not so; lest there be not enough for us and your: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut
Interesting now isn't it that only those that have the 'mark' of the beast can buy and sell.... wonder OPEC oil?
Can you see that Jesus need not set foot on the Earth to make contact with those in and on the Earth? Did he not appear to Saul ont he road to Damascus, without setting foot on the Earth?
The Creator and/or Jesus can do whatever they chose to do, the problem is that neither foretold a secret fly away, God said repeatedly He intends to retake His earth.
Would you be so kind as to give me your definition of The Church? What is the hallmark of The Church?
John in Revelation, gives the description of which churches are without blame and those that have got God problems.
I pray I get to have a ring side seat when so called- Christians explain to Jesus they were not under His law. Part of demonstrating John 3:16 ‘believe in’ requires the keeping of the Ten Commandments. Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into this city.
Deception is hip deep!
Why would Peter have to be convinced to go to the Gentiles when, according to Rood, Jesus already told them that they were "the lost sheep of the house of Israel"?
Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
BTW, Paul's consciousness is with The Lord, for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, not rotting in some grave. The consciousness is not confined to the body, it merely uses it to fashion a basis for reality. Even so them also who sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him and the dead in Christ shall rise first. That is Paul getting his glorified body. So why do you ask why he was not raptured nearly 2000 years ago?
Why was Paul not raptured out or any number of those that loved God? Why are some so special they are treated fairer than even Christ? I do not get this mentality. Followers of Christ and God did not fair well in this earth age why should some get special treatment.
You ask questions that indicate a shallow understanding of some passages of scripture. From whence arises this 'fairer than' dissonance? The issue of Rapturing His Body out of this planet demise is not an either or, nor is it to be twisted into some fairness doctrine. You do remember the story Jesus told about hiring workers in the vineyard and the ones hired within an hour of days end received the same wage that the one working all day received, right? Fairness doctrine is a sign of dissonance in the heart.
Throw out the doctrine of imminence and you get the sort of doubting brimming over in your questions. There is absolutely a pause between Daniel's sixty-nine week and the seventieth week. I can prove it with the Bible, yet I sense that such proof is not going to fit in the 'fairness doctrine' churning in your heart.
Your post is self-contradictory. On the one hand you complain 'why was Paul raptured out?' Yet in another sentence you write, 'God is able to protect those that love and follow His commandments without having to rapture them out.' The rapture is less about rescue and more about completion. Only God knows when the last soul will accept Christ as persona savior on faith not fear. At that moment God will bring them also who sleep in Jesus and give them glorified bodies and change we who are alive to match those bodies and gather us in the clouds to meet the Bridegroom in the Air.
Wonder not that some mysteries are kept until the time is at hand. For centuries people doubted the Bible, doubting that Daniel was even a real person or that Belshazzar ruled in Babylon. They doubted the Bible on nothing more than the fact that there was not a state of Israel, no nation with national boundaries called Israel, a Jewish state. Then some of these same doubters, these doctrinaires, doubted the Bible based upon Israel not possessing Jerusalem. Well, the Arabs opened up a war in 1967 that resulted in Israel possessing control of Jerusalem for the first time since 1517 when the Ottoman Turks took control over Jerusalem.
If you can see clearly what the Church is [HINT: the body of Christ] then you ought not doubt that He will come and get His body as the Church when His Father's trigger point is reached, without any foolishness of fairness doctrine. If you search for the 'Truth' He is always at the door and you need only open to Him. Never doubt that God will bring the Body of Christ that is the Church to the Father's House where Jesus told us are 'many mansions'. You can believe that to be at the end of the tribulation (as in slap the bride around then invite her to go to snack lunch) or you can believe it is mid way in the seventieth week of Daniel (as in watch the bride get mugged then when she's sufficiently mugged invite her on a dinner date). Or you can believe what the scriptures reveal about God snatching away the Bride of Christ/The body of Christ before he allows an evil presence to walk the earth and deceive so many into perdition. I prefer to believe God at His word, even though He kept that mystery to Himself for nearly 2000 years now.
The poster’s comment has a very cloying Mormonism sound to it, implying Grace must be earned.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.From the beginning God intended that Christ would go to the cross. He knew what Adam would do. How do we understand the mystery of iniquity? The desire to sin is sin.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.Here Eve reveals the condition of her heart. Note that Eve’s nature came from Adam before they ate the fruit and their eyes were opened. In Adam all die even Eve. If you want to predict God’s intent, look first at what happened and not what you think should have happened
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