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Scientist tackles mystery of ancient astronomical device
Phys.org, Science X network ^ | January 6, 2015 | Sandi Doughton, The Seattle Times

Posted on 01/11/2015 1:41:07 AM PST by SunkenCiv

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Main Antikythera mechanism fragment. The mechanism consists of a complex system of 32 wheels and plates with inscriptions relating to the signs of the zodiac and the months. Image: National Archaeological Museum, Athens, No. 15987.

Main Antikythera mechanism fragment. The mechanism consists of a complex system of 32 wheels and plates with inscriptions relating to the signs of the zodiac and the months. Image: National Archaeological Museum, Athens, No. 15987.

1 posted on 01/11/2015 1:41:08 AM PST by SunkenCiv
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We're having a midwinter special on Antikythera topics!
2 posted on 01/11/2015 1:41:58 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...
Someone sent me FReepmail about a November article, I think it was the one linked below, and I passed, and I couldn't figure out who sent it either. Ah well, my apologies, and thanks again:
A digital image of the surface inscriptions on the Antikythera Mechanism.

Solving the Riddles of an Early Astronomical Calculator

3 posted on 01/11/2015 1:46:25 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv

It’s part of a SKITTLES dispenser.


4 posted on 01/11/2015 1:57:40 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not A Matter of Opinion)
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To: SunkenCiv

5 posted on 01/11/2015 1:59:58 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not A Matter of Opinion)
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To: SunkenCiv

The best description for this: If you took ten of the best scientist and engineers of our times today, and locked them into a vault with no access to computers, and gave them a simple detailed requirement to develop or design something like this out of thin air......it might take forty years and you can’t even be sure of the success of the end-result.

Somewhere out there....two and three thousand years ago....we had brilliant men...generations ahead of Einstein. And what they knew....was lost.


6 posted on 01/11/2015 2:17:55 AM PST by pepsionice
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To: pepsionice

Thanks, but that’s just not true. The math available to Einstein was far beyond what the ancient Greeks had available, they couldn’t even make an arrow hit a man, as the old saying goes (couldn’t solve for two unknowns).

Whatever the mechanism was used for (probably just eclipse predictions and lunar cycles, and within a narrow range of centuries, it wouldn’t work today; at one time it was speculated that it was an early attempt to enhance navigation by calculating longitude), the construction was based on astronomical observations. That’s the real insight, how much did the Greeks know, and how accurately? Turns out, not as accurate as the Mayans.

The scientists of the Manhattan Project still used mechanical calculators and formulas on blackboards. Here’s a link about the progress made in computers as a result of the needs of the Manhattan Project (rather than the other way around):

http://www.mphpa.org/classic/HISTORY/H-06c18.htm

The Abacus: A Brief History
http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/abacus/history.html

Zero — Greeks and Romans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_(number)#Greeks_and_Romans


7 posted on 01/11/2015 2:45:28 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Pez.


8 posted on 01/11/2015 2:47:30 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv
Gears and water (and blowing sand and dirt from the shore) would mess it up quickly on a ship of that day. It would be far too expensive a device for a ship when other devices for navigation were much far less expensive. And why would someone on a ship need to know when the Olympic games were to be held?

No, my guess is this device was built for the Greeks by the Babylonians that they had conquered and was being shipped by boat when it floundered. It was probably for a King's administration for telling the times of such events faithfully. It's value, at that time, is inestimable.

9 posted on 01/11/2015 2:56:16 AM PST by CptnObvious
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To: SunkenCiv

10 posted on 01/11/2015 2:56:29 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not A Matter of Opinion)
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Bump.


11 posted on 01/11/2015 3:29:17 AM PST by Jaxter (Si vis pacem para bellum.)
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To: CptnObvious
It would be far too expensive a device for a ship when other devices for navigation were much far less expensive.
It's value, at that time, is inestimable.

I agree completely with your value estimate. When I think of just the DESIGN of this mechanism, my head swims. a box of 340cm Length (11.15") by 180cm W (5.90") by 90cm D (2.95") containing a minimum of 30 bronze gears and hand crank - WOW!!

There is a short but very interesting YouTube video of a London, English Museum Curator, Michael Wright, describing his multi-year effort to reconstruct the mechanism (2008). Given that one side displays the visually retrograde movements of the 5 known planets of the time, that apparently were 'handled' by multiple gearing.

The Wikipedia article on this mechanism does indicate (at bottom) that the design was in advance of the available mechanical skill needed for the implementation. Still I would imagine that this entire mechanism required a very wealthy patron, a designer close in skill and knowledge to Archimedes and a master-level workshop and artisans to produce it over a period of years!

Indeed, it may be a push to assume that it really worked or worked reliably! It could have been the equivalent of a White Elephant, known to have great potential but so balky and cranky as to be totally frustrating!

12 posted on 01/11/2015 4:03:46 AM PST by SES1066 (Quality, Speed or Economical - Any 2 of 3 except in government - 1 at best but never #3!)
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To: SunkenCiv

I think those guys who work on Rolex watches could fix this thing up in a jiffy.......


13 posted on 01/11/2015 4:07:09 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (I'm a man of no-color and proud of it.)
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To: SunkenCiv
Hmmmm. Found on Mars this year....


14 posted on 01/11/2015 4:14:14 AM PST by catfish1957 (Everything I needed to know about Islam was written on 11 Sep 2001)
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To: SES1066

I doubt that. I believe that we have found multiple written references to what we now know were Antikythera devices.


15 posted on 01/11/2015 4:17:28 AM PST by dinodino
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To: catfish1957

I meant last yr. (2014). Of all the silly bunny in the clouds crap, the whacko UFOists dream up, this is the one single thing found that I believe defies explanation.


16 posted on 01/11/2015 4:18:13 AM PST by catfish1957 (Everything I needed to know about Islam was written on 11 Sep 2001)
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To: catfish1957

Hmm, made on Mars by the RAT.

http://mars.nasa.gov/mer/mission/spacecraft_instru_rat.html


17 posted on 01/11/2015 4:19:06 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv
thank you, very much for this enlightening post..it's similar to the Curta. ☺🎆

18 posted on 01/11/2015 4:20:32 AM PST by skinkinthegrass ("Bathhouse" E'Bola/0'Boehmer/0'McConnell; all STINK and their best friends are flies. d8^)
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To: CptnObvious

Why would the Babylonians need to know when the Olympic games were to be held? The machine is Greek in origin.


19 posted on 01/11/2015 4:21:44 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv
Thanks. A couple of counters though.

(1)Wouldn't these designs be all over?, and showing up on imagery? . (2) Why is the design so weathered like an archeological find, and not sharp and crisp, like if the tool was recently used?

20 posted on 01/11/2015 4:32:43 AM PST by catfish1957 (Everything I needed to know about Islam was written on 11 Sep 2001)
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