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STOCK TALK: Alibaba investors risk being gored in bull run
Business Day Live ^ | 9-21-2014 | Ann Crotty

Posted on 09/21/2014 7:46:33 AM PDT by Citizen Zed

THE lone US senator who was urging the Securities and Exchange Commission to investigate the gaping governance holes in Alibaba must have felt like some stray tourist caught up in the middle of the annual bull run in Pamplona.

On Thursday, Senator Bob Casey looked as though he was about to be charged down by an excited herd of bulls desperate to invest in ... well, that's the thing, it's difficult to know exactly what they're investing in.

Alibaba is described as a Chinese technology company.

It is 15 years old, and in recent years has pumped out good profits from linking buyers with sellers of almost everything.

But that is not what US investors were pouring their money into on Friday, the first day of Alibaba's listing on the New York Stock Exchange.

What US investors are buying into is a Cayman Island shell company that has contractual rights to the profits of Alibaba's China-based profits but no economic interest in them.

The extremely complicated structure created around Alibaba partly reflects controlling shareholder Jack Ma's determination not to dilute his control over management. This is reasonable enough, given his success in building the company from scratch. But, more critically, the structure also reflects the Chinese government's restriction on foreigners investing in sectors, such as technology, which are deemed sensitive. To avoid these restrictions, Chinese companies set up what is called a variable interest equity (VIE) structure. This is what is at the heart of the Alibaba pyramid - as it is at Tencent.

What should be causing some restraint from investors is that the validity of the contracts underpinning these structures is determined entirely by the Chinese courts and government.

Beijing is probably keen to see a "national champion" thrive on the world stage. However, the reality is Alibaba represents a bet not on the company's technological capacity nor on its growth prospects, but on the Chinese government's acceptance of foreign investors.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS:
What would Jim Cramer do?
1 posted on 09/21/2014 7:46:33 AM PDT by Citizen Zed
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To: Citizen Zed

Does it bother anybody that “Alibaba” is the leader of the 40 Thieves?


2 posted on 09/21/2014 7:50:41 AM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: Citizen Zed

Don’t only concentrate on Alibaba but pay attention also to the 40 thieves.


3 posted on 09/21/2014 7:51:16 AM PDT by 353FMG
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To: G Larry

I can’t believe anyone would invest even a dime in this company!

WHAT DO THEY EVEN DO!?!

Never heard of them prior to a week ago, and will probably never use them in my life for anything.

Bunch of freaking lemmings need to use their brains!


4 posted on 09/21/2014 7:52:23 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: Citizen Zed

What the hell is Alibaba, and how is it suddenly worth billions of dollars? I never even heard of it until last week.


5 posted on 09/21/2014 7:53:27 AM PDT by webheart (We are all pretty much living in a fiction.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009
WHAT DO THEY EVEN DO!?!

think $(EBAY + AMAZON + GOOGLE) X 10

6 posted on 09/21/2014 8:02:30 AM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan
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To: webheart; TexasFreeper2009

They’re described as combination of Amazon, Ebay, and Paypal.

It means not only do they sell any and everything, if they don’t have it, they’ll line you up with someone willing to make or provided it.
And they also have their own payment provider.


7 posted on 09/21/2014 8:03:12 AM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: TexasFreeper2009; webheart

Wadda ya live under a rock!


8 posted on 09/21/2014 8:04:58 AM PDT by 1FreeAmerican
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To: G Larry

While the 40 thieves are first to come to mind when hearing ‘Alibaba’, Alibaba wasn’t the leader. He’s the one who scammed them.

Hmmm...


9 posted on 09/21/2014 8:05:04 AM PDT by Moltke ("The Press, Watson, is a most valuable institution if you only know how to use it.")
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To: Citizen Zed
"What would Jim Cramer do?"

He would go in very heavy because he is a poltroon.

If the Chinese have no compunction about adulterating their food exports why does anyone think they would stint at their accounting practices.

I predict that a whole bunch of people are going to get hosed big time.

10 posted on 09/21/2014 8:12:54 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Jimmy Valentine

Someone who helps the Chi-Coms gets what he deserves, IMO.


11 posted on 09/21/2014 8:16:38 AM PDT by Bigg Red (31 May 2014: Obamugabe officially declares the USA a vanquished subject of the Global Caliphate.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Been using them for about 6 years or so importing product from different suppliers into the US. It’s a giant Craig’s List (of sorts) for manufacturing companies. Lots of good deals on quality products, but the majority of the things to be found there are very substandard and you have to be careful.


12 posted on 09/21/2014 8:30:08 AM PDT by 1_Inch_Group (Country Before Party)
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To: 1_Inch_Group

“but the majority of the things to be found there are very substandard and you have to be careful.”

Sounds a lot like Walmart


13 posted on 09/21/2014 9:31:10 AM PDT by wrench
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan

lol

good luck getting your money back when you order something from someone in China and you get ripped off.

I never order ANYTHING being shipped from outside the US.

Alibaba is meaningless to me


14 posted on 09/21/2014 9:47:19 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: expat_panama
Very interesting.
15 posted on 09/21/2014 1:16:56 PM PDT by Chgogal (Obama "hung the SEALs out to dry, basically exposed them like a set of dog balls..." CMH)
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To: Citizen Zed

What would Jim Cramer do?


Rob you blind. He has admitted he used pump and dump schemes. I bet he still does but now uses his tv show. I do not believe he does not have an interest in the stocks he promotes no matter what he says.


16 posted on 09/21/2014 1:50:02 PM PDT by minnesota_bound
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To: wrench

Yeah, similar concept but on Alibaba you generally have to buy 500 of something to get a reasonable price. It’s useful for small business sourcing products that can’t be found locally.


17 posted on 09/21/2014 2:02:51 PM PDT by 1_Inch_Group (Country Before Party)
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To: Bigg Red
Sooner or later we will find Bill Clinton as an "advisor" or some such.

His day is coming.

18 posted on 09/22/2014 5:20:42 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Jimmy Valentine

Most definitely. He and the Chi-Coms are buds from way back. They gave him cash, and he gave them military secrets. Cozy.


19 posted on 09/22/2014 6:32:42 AM PDT by Bigg Red (31 May 2014: Obamugabe officially declares the USA a vanquished subject of the Global Caliphate.)
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